The Value of Intuition in Sales with Leslie Venetz

Wesleyne Greer: 00:00:00

As a sales manager, you are judged by the

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performance of your team, and you're praised when they do

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well. But one thing that you've not been able to figure out is

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how to get everyone on your team consistently hitting quota every

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single month. On the Snack size sales podcast, we discuss the

Wesleyne Greer: 00:00:22

science of selling stem sales leadership in the science,

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technology, engineering and manufacturing fields is

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difficult. You will learn from sales managers just like you

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that will give you actionable insights and tips on how to

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develop as a leader and achieve your revenue targets every

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single month. So pop your headphones in and get ready to

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listen to my guest today. They will give you information and

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inspiration to ensure that you have actionable insights that

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you can put into place today. Hello, and welcome to another

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:01

episode of the science of selling stem. I am so excited

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today to have a Leslie thence with me. How are you Leslie? Oh

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:11

my gosh, I'm so great. I felt like I'm remeeting royalty here.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:16

We're finally putting faces to names after all this time. I

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:20

know we've been following each other for so long on LinkedIn.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:24

So I'm so excited to dig into things with you. Let me tell you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:28

guys a little bit about Leslie. She's a three time head of sales

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and founder of a consulting company sales team builder she

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is passionate about creating inclusive, respective sales

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teams to level up their profession of sales. How did you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:44

get started and become a three time Head of Sales not once or

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:48

twice, but thrice. Tell us about your journey? Yeah, I, you know,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:54

I think like a lot of people's journeys, I didn't mean to go

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:58

into sales, I stumbled into it. And it's really been a roller

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:03

coaster of being an individual contributor selling products

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:07

that I love moving into management, moving back to being

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:10

an individual contributor, selling something I didn't love

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:13

so much. You know, I think often there's this narrative that in

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:17

your career, you have to have this linear upward path. And

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:21

that has not been true for me. I don't think I'm alone in that.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:26

But I started as a like, straight up cold caller 100%

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:32

Cold outreach, no emails, no inbound, I was making 150 200

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:37

dials a day, no computer at my desk, even it was literally just

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:43

a stack of paper leads and a phone. That's how I started. So

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:47

I've started there. And 15 years later now to run a sales

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:51

consulting company that's very focused on like the modern

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:55

seller and the modern buyer. It's been an evolution. Wow. So

Wesleyne Greer: 00:03:00

like all school has your phone but dialing I call it dialing

Wesleyne Greer: 00:03:03

for dollars. So you actually started dialing for dollars.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:03:07

That's how you cut your teeth and sales smile and dial

Wesleyne Greer: 00:03:11

smiling.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:03:13

People they say that today smiling. So you mentioned that

Wesleyne Greer: 00:03:18

you your path to where you are today hasn't been a straight

Wesleyne Greer: 00:03:22

line. So you went from being an individual contributor? And you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:03:26

said, Yeah, okay, I want to go into management. But maybe this

Wesleyne Greer: 00:03:29

doesn't work for me. And then you also mentioned selling

Wesleyne Greer: 00:03:32

products that you really don't like, how did you know that this

Wesleyne Greer: 00:03:36

wasn't for you? What were the keys in that position? They

Wesleyne Greer: 00:03:39

said,

leslie venetz: 00:03:40

I gotta go. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's

leslie venetz: 00:03:43

interesting, the job I'm thinking about, and I won't call

leslie venetz: 00:03:45

them out, the product itself actually could have been a very,

leslie venetz: 00:03:50

very powerful and very useful product. But the way it was

leslie venetz: 00:03:55

being sold, just did felt icky. And what I always try to remind

leslie venetz: 00:04:00

folks is that it's okay, if it feels uncomfortable, like that's

leslie venetz: 00:04:05

part of trying something new and pushing gently against our

leslie venetz: 00:04:08

boundaries and growing. But if it feels icky, like listen to

leslie venetz: 00:04:12

your intuition, and it was a lot of those old school sales

leslie venetz: 00:04:16

tactics of really almost being like predatory in the way they

leslie venetz: 00:04:20

were using emotion and using fear and urgency to get the deal

leslie venetz: 00:04:25

done. And then as a result, you had clients that regretted their

leslie venetz: 00:04:29

purchases, and were unhappy with the solution at the end of the

leslie venetz: 00:04:33

day.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:04:33

So as a sales person, or maybe even as a sales

Wesleyne Greer: 00:04:37

leader, how do you know the difference between uncomfortable

Wesleyne Greer: 00:04:40

and achy? Like what are some of the things that you can tell

Wesleyne Greer: 00:04:43

them so they know because a lot of people are like, I don't like

Wesleyne Greer: 00:04:45

doing this, but it could just be because you haven't done it

Wesleyne Greer: 00:04:48

enough. What's the difference?

leslie venetz: 00:04:49

Yeah, for me, it's always been a gut feeling.

leslie venetz: 00:04:53

And I think that's true for a lot of people, right? Like if

leslie venetz: 00:04:56

your intuition is telling you this is wrong. like this does

leslie venetz: 00:05:00

not align with your value set, you're probably erring on the

leslie venetz: 00:05:04

side of achy versus just uncomfortable. You know, I think

leslie venetz: 00:05:09

one of the easiest paths to figure out, you know where

leslie venetz: 00:05:12

you're at on that paradigm is to just have a conversation with

leslie venetz: 00:05:15

your manager or with your leadership about it. This feels

leslie venetz: 00:05:17

bad, because and by talking through it, you know, I think

leslie venetz: 00:05:21

you can get to an outcome that maybe that's not the job for

leslie venetz: 00:05:25

you. Or maybe sales isn't even the job for you. Or maybe you're

leslie venetz: 00:05:29

just going through a process of growth, and it hurts a bit.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:05:32

Hmm. So you mentioned something about

Wesleyne Greer: 00:05:36

selling a product that didn't make you feel too great. And

Wesleyne Greer: 00:05:39

then customers kind of coming back and being like, give me a

Wesleyne Greer: 00:05:42

refund. I don't like this. What were some of the lessons that

Wesleyne Greer: 00:05:45

you learned in that when you were in that place, selling a

Wesleyne Greer: 00:05:48

product that you felt icky about customers coming back and

Wesleyne Greer: 00:05:51

saying, You suck? What are some of those lessons learns that

Wesleyne Greer: 00:05:55

you've translated into life lessons today?

leslie venetz: 00:05:58

Yeah, that entire was only there for six months.

leslie venetz: 00:06:01

Not surprisingly, the culture was also a terrible, terrible,

leslie venetz: 00:06:07

terrible culture. The opposite of everything that I stand for,

leslie venetz: 00:06:13

like it was actively not diverse and actively not inclusive,

leslie venetz: 00:06:17

their idea of culture was very much like young white men. That

leslie venetz: 00:06:22

was their idea of culture is, you know, a bunch of people that

leslie venetz: 00:06:24

wanted to go out and get drunk together every night after work.

leslie venetz: 00:06:28

That was a role where my direct supervisor, like very

leslie venetz: 00:06:32

aggressively verbally abused and sexually harassed me. So it was

leslie venetz: 00:06:37

a long, long list of red flags, maybe at the bottom of it was

leslie venetz: 00:06:43

that the way that we were selling didn't fit for me. So,

leslie venetz: 00:06:47

you know, I think the top line lesson was to trust myself more,

leslie venetz: 00:06:54

like I saw those red flags along the way. And I just hoped that

leslie venetz: 00:06:59

it would be different because I was being hired as their first

leslie venetz: 00:07:03

US employee and as a head of sales, and I was being given

leslie venetz: 00:07:06

this opportunity to create my own culture. So I kind of

leslie venetz: 00:07:09

tricked myself into thinking, well, if I get that ownership, I

leslie venetz: 00:07:14

can make it something different than it is. But if it's already

leslie venetz: 00:07:18

rotten, it's going to be pretty difficult to go in there and fix

leslie venetz: 00:07:23

it. And at the same time, like that was probably too much for

leslie venetz: 00:07:27

me to take on. Like, I yeah, I think my like big life lesson

leslie venetz: 00:07:32

was, really, you need to trust your intuition more. And if it

leslie venetz: 00:07:36

feels wrong from the beginning, don't go in thinking that like,

leslie venetz: 00:07:40

you're going to be the magic one that can make everything better.

leslie venetz: 00:07:44

That's unrealistic.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:07:45

Hmm. I was recently working vetting a

Wesleyne Greer: 00:07:50

client, if you will, and they had a head of sales that was

Wesleyne Greer: 00:07:53

outgoing. And she was like, yeah, just talk to him get his

Wesleyne Greer: 00:07:56

opinion, all these things. I thought it was quite innocent.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:07:59

The first thing that he said, was this company so

Wesleyne Greer: 00:08:01

dysfunctional, like, oh, okay, so let's talk about these

Wesleyne Greer: 00:08:06

things. And really one of the things that you said he only

Wesleyne Greer: 00:08:11

lasted for months. And one of the things that you said that is

Wesleyne Greer: 00:08:14

so true is when you are in those situations, and they're so

Wesleyne Greer: 00:08:19

mentally taxing, it's like you feel the abuse, you feel the oh,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:08:24

I have to go to work again, oh, I have to show up, I have to be

Wesleyne Greer: 00:08:26

my best self, it tends to affect your next step, or what you do

Wesleyne Greer: 00:08:31

after that position, because it kind of hurts your self esteem.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:08:33

So after you left that very toxic place, how did you kind of

Wesleyne Greer: 00:08:37

crawl out of that and rebuild your confidence? And no, it's

Wesleyne Greer: 00:08:40

not me. They were crazy. Not me.

leslie venetz: 00:08:42

Yeah, that's a really good question. Because it

leslie venetz: 00:08:45

was a journey. And honestly, Wesleyne I think it's a journey

leslie venetz: 00:08:48

I'm still on. Like it was, it was a really pivotal moment in

leslie venetz: 00:08:54

my career in my life, in how I define not just what I want to

leslie venetz: 00:09:00

do, but who I want to be while I'm doing it. And it took a long

leslie venetz: 00:09:05

time for me to build back like a long time, found myself back in

leslie venetz: 00:09:10

therapy. So that helped so grateful that I have access to

leslie venetz: 00:09:14

mental health like that. But I was lucky enough that I took a

leslie venetz: 00:09:18

month off. I mean, I quit without another job. So I had

leslie venetz: 00:09:21

kind of a month stop gap where I could be thoughtful and sit with

leslie venetz: 00:09:24

it and sort of recover from some of the depression and anxiety

leslie venetz: 00:09:28

that I was feeling as a result. during that month. I was also

leslie venetz: 00:09:32

able to get a lot of the people I'd hired out and into new jobs,

leslie venetz: 00:09:37

because that was a real burden that I felt I felt this

leslie venetz: 00:09:41

responsibility for them. So I think that was the sort of first

leslie venetz: 00:09:45

step but you know, I would say honestly for a full year after

leslie venetz: 00:09:49

that, and I went to a startup after that, where I also didn't

leslie venetz: 00:09:52

have like sounding board so I was just sort of winging it for

leslie venetz: 00:09:55

a year after that I frequently had to sit with myself to be

leslie venetz: 00:09:59

like no You are good at this, you got this. And I kind of had

leslie venetz: 00:10:04

to like talk myself back into believing that I was the elite

leslie venetz: 00:10:09

sales performer and sales leader that I am,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:10:13

hmm. Man, there's so much there that I'm

Wesleyne Greer: 00:10:16

gonna unpack.

leslie venetz: 00:10:17

So taking it to the emotional background you

leslie venetz: 00:10:20

love God.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:10:23

This is what we do here. We're talking about the

Wesleyne Greer: 00:10:25

science of selling sell. And so one of the things that I think

Wesleyne Greer: 00:10:31

we kind of gloss over so many times within our profession is

Wesleyne Greer: 00:10:35

the tax thing nature that it has on our mental health. And so you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:10:40

mentioned Hey, I realized I needed to go to therapy. And I

Wesleyne Greer: 00:10:44

think that I really just want to take a moment and let people

Wesleyne Greer: 00:10:46

know that is absolutely okay. If you work within a company, I

Wesleyne Greer: 00:10:50

would say probably 95% of the companies out there have some

Wesleyne Greer: 00:10:54

kind of EAP, which is a resource within the company and you say,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:10:57

hey, I need a therapist and you get three free sessions, the

Wesleyne Greer: 00:11:02

company that's just a benefit that you have as an employee,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:11:05

and it's confidential, you go you work through the therapist,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:11:08

and if you don't feel comfortable with that, it's okay

Wesleyne Greer: 00:11:10

to seek your own therapy, there's, we have to start

Wesleyne Greer: 00:11:12

removing that stigma. Because what happens, especially when

Wesleyne Greer: 00:11:17

we're in these leadership positions, you mentioned, you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:11:19

didn't have a sounding board. And so not having a sounding

Wesleyne Greer: 00:11:22

board, not having someone to talk to is so so detrimental.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:11:27

And we don't realize the effect that it has on us long term.

leslie venetz: 00:11:30

It's true. I mean, I definitely felt

leslie venetz: 00:11:32

isolated, I was definitely struggling to prioritize. I

leslie venetz: 00:11:37

mean, I wasn't prioritizing my mental health when I was in the

leslie venetz: 00:11:40

thick of it. And so it was, it was really something I had to be

leslie venetz: 00:11:43

very intentional about, as I recovered from that time in my

leslie venetz: 00:11:49

life. And it's why I talk about it openly, because there is

leslie venetz: 00:11:52

unfortunately a stigma around therapy around prioritizing your

leslie venetz: 00:11:55

mental health. I think it's important in all professions,

leslie venetz: 00:11:58

but gosh, in a profession, like sales, where you're also facing

leslie venetz: 00:12:01

rejection, every single day, every day, every Dang day, it is

leslie venetz: 00:12:08

so important to give yourself that space and that permission

leslie venetz: 00:12:13

to just admit, oh, I think I need to take some time to rest

leslie venetz: 00:12:16

or recharge or reach out for help. So that you don't feel

leslie venetz: 00:12:19

isolated or fall into patterns of depression or anxiety, or you

leslie venetz: 00:12:23

know, whatever it is.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:24

And then as leaders, we have the

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:28

salespeople. And I mean, I really try not to say like

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:32

they're our children, because some people don't like that.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:34

They're like, Oh, that's kind of derogatory. But I liken it to a

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:38

close loved one, even though it's in a professional realm.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:41

But when you find the best and the brightest, and you say, take

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:46

a bet on me, take a chance on me because people don't leave

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:49

companies, they don't come to companies, they leave managers,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:51

they go to up managers, right? Like you as the manager, you're

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:55

interviewing them, you're convincing them, you are selling

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:57

them the company. And so to then say, Okay, I've taken a step

Wesleyne Greer: 00:13:01

back. Now, these people that I brought into this toxic

Wesleyne Greer: 00:13:04

environment, I want to make sure that you're taking care of also,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:13:07

how did those people who you brought in and then helped find

Wesleyne Greer: 00:13:12

another path? How did that impact them as salespeople?

leslie venetz: 00:13:16

So you know, I'm thinking of a couple examples.

leslie venetz: 00:13:19

For the women, it was pretty rough, because they saw what was

leslie venetz: 00:13:24

happening to me with a lens that the men just weren't seeing it

leslie venetz: 00:13:28

through. And then many of them were also being subjected to

leslie venetz: 00:13:33

forms of sexism and sexual harassment and gender

leslie venetz: 00:13:36

discrimination. So some of them will still reach out to me now,

leslie venetz: 00:13:40

from a place of gratitude, like thank you for not just leaving

leslie venetz: 00:13:43

me there. And, you know, it's interesting, because I still

leslie venetz: 00:13:47

keep in touch with about a half a day, it was a big team, I

leslie venetz: 00:13:50

ramped a team of 24 SDRs, in three months. So it was a it was

leslie venetz: 00:13:53

a pretty big team. And there's about a half a dozen of the guys

leslie venetz: 00:13:56

that I keep in touch with. And I've often sensed like an

leslie venetz: 00:14:00

undertone of guilt. And one of them has explicitly stated that,

leslie venetz: 00:14:05

like, he didn't realize how bad it was, and he wishes he would

leslie venetz: 00:14:09

have done more he wishes he would have said something. So

leslie venetz: 00:14:13

it's interesting that we were, you know, we were kind of all in

leslie venetz: 00:14:16

it together. Like nobody was spared from this leaders wrath.

leslie venetz: 00:14:21

And there were folks that, you know, I think, to protect

leslie venetz: 00:14:25

themselves, chose the route of aligning with him. And then

leslie venetz: 00:14:30

another group of people that chose the route of, you know, at

leslie venetz: 00:14:34

the very least saying, I'm uncomfortable, and then on the

leslie venetz: 00:14:36

far end being like, give me the heck outta here. This is toxic.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:40

Yeah, you know, and you talk about diversity,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:43

equity and inclusion alive. And I actually recently had this

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:46

conversation, and it's called the bystander effect, right? And

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:50

so when you are in the situation, whether you're male

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:54

or you're female, you're underrepresented minority or

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:56

not. A lot of times you're sitting in the room and you're

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:58

seeing those aggressive Whether they're macro or micro, because

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:02

people talk about micro aggressions, you talking over me

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:05

is not a micro aggression. That is an aggression period. Right?

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:08

And really, and I say it's the small things, it's something as

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:13

small as hearing your colleague being talked down to or being

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:18

mansplaining, or whatever that is, or you can see them

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:21

shrinking in their seat as somebody is talking. And you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:23

say, Hey, Tom, I think you what, you're a little bit out of line

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:26

there, or I really agree with what Mary said, Can we let her

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:29

finish our thought something as small as that really shows ally

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:34

ship and a really helps that person? That one that

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:38

underrepresented minority? No, that okay, there's somebody else

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:40

speaking for me, because right now, I can't find my voice.

leslie venetz: 00:15:43

It's so true that spot on just like plus 1 million

leslie venetz: 00:15:47

to get comment. And I don't think that our allies always

leslie venetz: 00:15:52

realize how big of a difference such a small action and makes me

leslie venetz: 00:15:57

insane, something as simple as you know, before we move on,

leslie venetz: 00:16:01

Tom, you know, I'd really love to give Leslie a chance to

leslie venetz: 00:16:04

finish her thought, like such a simple action on that really has

leslie venetz: 00:16:09

bigger and more meaningful implications.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:11

Yes, yes. And I had a situation in my career

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:15

where there was a manager, who was Township, probably like my

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:19

manager, and yours could be twins. And I was HR was like, he

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:24

doesn't respect women. This is what's happening. That's what's

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:26

happening. And the HR manager told me, Oh, no less lean stuff

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:31

that he doesn't respect women. He treats everybody like that.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:33

And I said, But why is that? Okay? Like, why is that? Okay?

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:37

And then when you hear it coming from that level, you know, like,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:39

it is time to go, like, what else can I do? Because you're

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:43

making excuses for that person. So now I want to pivot a little

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:47

bit. Isn't that crazy?

leslie venetz: 00:16:49

Right? Yeah. I mean, it was a similar

leslie venetz: 00:16:51

situation, I escalated to the CEO. And he told me I was just

leslie venetz: 00:16:55

being sensitive.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:56

Yeah. Oh, we can go into a whole nother

leslie venetz: 00:17:00

feminine urge to prove yourself. Oh, yes. A

leslie venetz: 00:17:03

pivot. Yeah.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:17:04

Maybe Why don't you do this? Or is the like, no.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:17:09

So now let's kind of transition because that topic that we just

Wesleyne Greer: 00:17:14

covered is so important mental health ally ship speaking up for

Wesleyne Greer: 00:17:17

yourself, really having someone to come alongside you when you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:17:21

don't have your voice. And so for all of my listeners, I hope

Wesleyne Greer: 00:17:25

that you really got something from that very important

Wesleyne Greer: 00:17:28

segment. But now I want to transition a bit because you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:17:31

said you went from leader to individual contributor back to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:17:34

leader, so was that around the same time, or what caused you to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:17:39

take a step back so that you can escalate?

leslie venetz: 00:17:41

You know, and I'll even challenge you, because

leslie venetz: 00:17:43

I don't feel like going from leader to end individual

leslie venetz: 00:17:46

contributors a step back.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:17:49

I love it. I love the challenge. Now, you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:17:51

know,

leslie venetz: 00:17:51

I just like that, that entire, like belief that

leslie venetz: 00:17:55

the only way to move up in your career is to move into

leslie venetz: 00:17:59

management. And if you move into management and realize that it's

leslie venetz: 00:18:03

not for you, you're somehow taking a step back. Or if you

leslie venetz: 00:18:07

are in management in one company, and then find another

leslie venetz: 00:18:10

opportunity where you love the team and the culture and the

leslie venetz: 00:18:13

product and become an individual contributor, somehow that's not

leslie venetz: 00:18:16

a step up. That's a step back. So I don't buy into all of that.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:18:21

I do want to say that. I love that. And one of

Wesleyne Greer: 00:18:25

the reasons that I love interviewing you amazing people

Wesleyne Greer: 00:18:27

is because you challenge the way that I say things or perceive

Wesleyne Greer: 00:18:31

things and you're right. It's not a step back, because

Wesleyne Greer: 00:18:33

sometimes you're doing it because I mean, let's face it,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:18:37

salespeople actually do make more money than sales managers,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:18:39

sometimes, sometimes there's a skill you need to learn. So it's

Wesleyne Greer: 00:18:43

not necessarily a setback, it's a different decision. So I go

Wesleyne Greer: 00:18:47

now, I'm not going to say that anymore. It is not a setback, it

Wesleyne Greer: 00:18:50

is a shift in your career. Okay, keep rocking the roll.

leslie venetz: 00:18:54

And you said something really important that

leslie venetz: 00:18:57

was lean that often sales executives top performing sales

leslie venetz: 00:19:00

executives make more than sales leadership. And so often when I

leslie venetz: 00:19:05

tell folks that that are thinking about their career

leslie venetz: 00:19:07

pathing it blows their minds. So like, just a heads up, think

leslie venetz: 00:19:14

about what your goals are, and think about why you want to move

leslie venetz: 00:19:17

into leadership. And if it's because of the title or because

leslie venetz: 00:19:19

of the money, you're probably not going to love it when you

leslie venetz: 00:19:22

get there.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:23

No, one of the biggest things that I hear from

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:26

new sales managers, the ones that you know, they're my, my

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:29

special people that I love so much is I'm making less money

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:33

doing more work, and everybody hates me that like that is one

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:37

of the things they say within their first 60 to 90 days. It's

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:41

it's like oh my gosh, what did I do? Like I was the number one

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:45

salesperson I was bringing in all the money everybody was

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:47

loving me but I'll ask God, so it is Oh true. But for some

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:53

people, that is what they want to do like and some people want

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:57

to instead of generate the revenue themselves, they want

Wesleyne Greer: 00:20:00

five or 10 people to use their ideas, their coaching and

Wesleyne Greer: 00:20:04

generate their revenue through them until it's a paradigm

Wesleyne Greer: 00:20:06

shift. Right? It

leslie venetz: 00:20:07

is. And I went from individual contributor into

leslie venetz: 00:20:11

sales management. And I went very early in my career into

leslie venetz: 00:20:15

management, which, you know, I had many jobs all through

leslie venetz: 00:20:19

college, and I've been leading people in managing people. So it

leslie venetz: 00:20:22

wasn't totally new. But it's a shift when it's like your first

leslie venetz: 00:20:25

corporate job. And you're, you know, a manager in that context.

leslie venetz: 00:20:29

But I went from IC to sales manager to player coach to head

leslie venetz: 00:20:35

of sales to being the number one employee where I was an icy

leslie venetz: 00:20:41

like, I mean, I still had my own quota and my own numbers I

leslie venetz: 00:20:45

needed to be putting on the board, but also was running the

leslie venetz: 00:20:48

GTM. And creating the MVP and hiring the team and running the

leslie venetz: 00:20:52

team and was a sort of player coach in that role, but also in

leslie venetz: 00:20:55

a really strategic role. And then move to another company

leslie venetz: 00:21:00

where I was an IC for a bit while I was learning the product

leslie venetz: 00:21:03

before I started managing people. And then during the

leslie venetz: 00:21:06

pandemic, we got VC, but I mean, just turned everything upside

leslie venetz: 00:21:11

down, and then went back into an IC role for a couple of months

leslie venetz: 00:21:15

before I left. And now I'm sort of an individual contributor,

leslie venetz: 00:21:19

right, like, as a founder as a solopreneur. That's, that's what

leslie venetz: 00:21:23

I'm doing. So it has really been an all over the place. But each

leslie venetz: 00:21:28

role has been meaningful in its own way. And each role has, like

leslie venetz: 00:21:34

very much taught me something different and new, that I don't

leslie venetz: 00:21:39

think I would have gotten if I would have been so married to

leslie venetz: 00:21:43

like the linear path forward.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:45

So what I really like about the way that you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:48

shared your experience, you didn't just say so I went from

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:50

this company, and I was an individual contributor. And then

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:53

I became a manager, you're like, I did this because it was

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:55

strategic here. I was building playbooks here. And I was doing

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:58

go to market strategy there. And I was doing this and I was doing

Wesleyne Greer: 00:22:01

that. And we know as entrepreneurs, as consultants,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:22:04

that's what makes us great, because we're not one

Wesleyne Greer: 00:22:06

dimensional, we've worn so many different hats. So if you could

Wesleyne Greer: 00:22:11

look back over your diverse, varied, amazing career, give me

Wesleyne Greer: 00:22:15

the top three things that you found most important, and you're

Wesleyne Greer: 00:22:20

implementing into your practice today,

leslie venetz: 00:22:23

with the top three things that I have found

leslie venetz: 00:22:25

most important boundaries. That's probably what I'll lead

leslie venetz: 00:22:30

with, and boundaries on so many fronts. Like, I think one of the

leslie venetz: 00:22:35

biggest lightbulb moments in my career Wesleyne was when I

leslie venetz: 00:22:38

admitted to myself that I wasn't as important as I wanted to

leslie venetz: 00:22:42

pretend to be, and it came to me, because I would, you know,

leslie venetz: 00:22:46

take PTR, I've almost exclusively worked for British

leslie venetz: 00:22:49

companies. And then when I was at a startup, I created the comp

leslie venetz: 00:22:52

plan. So I've always had just this aggressive amount of PTO,

leslie venetz: 00:22:55

and I take it, I love it. But for many years, like all of my

leslie venetz: 00:22:58

20s, I wouldn't be unavailable while I was on vacation. And I

leslie venetz: 00:23:04

had this like, story going in my head, everything would fall

leslie venetz: 00:23:08

apart if I wasn't there. And they you know, they just can't

leslie venetz: 00:23:10

function without me I have to be available. And like I don't even

leslie venetz: 00:23:14

know what the stopgap was. But it was this moment where I was

leslie venetz: 00:23:16

like, if you're building a team that can't function while you're

leslie venetz: 00:23:19

gone for a week, you're doing it wrong. Like if you're making

leslie venetz: 00:23:23

yourself so available, that if you are gone for a week, people

leslie venetz: 00:23:27

lose it. Like that's bad. That's not good, Leslie, that's That's

leslie venetz: 00:23:31

not like you shouldn't be patting yourself on the back for

leslie venetz: 00:23:34

being available while on PTO. So that was like one set of like,

leslie venetz: 00:23:38

just setting better boundaries for work life like with my

leslie venetz: 00:23:42

clients, with my staff. I think that's been a really big pivotal

leslie venetz: 00:23:46

one. I think understanding the difference between diversity and

leslie venetz: 00:23:50

inclusion has been really important for me. And it's been

leslie venetz: 00:23:54

something that I've really felt. And I'm now to the point where I

leslie venetz: 00:23:58

think diversity is table stakes. And when people are like, Oh my

leslie venetz: 00:24:01

gosh, I'm such an amazing ally, because I say out loud that

leslie venetz: 00:24:05

diversity is important. I'm like, Cool, and what else? Are

leslie venetz: 00:24:08

you doing? Literally any anything else? Oh, no, you you

leslie venetz: 00:24:11

aren't. And like how that's manifested. For me. It was

leslie venetz: 00:24:14

really like pushing hard on the talk track that inclusion means

leslie venetz: 00:24:20

admitting that we have almost all of our, you know, historical

leslie venetz: 00:24:26

sales, trainings, processes, scripts, everything is from a

leslie venetz: 00:24:31

white male perspective. And like, what they've given us some

leslie venetz: 00:24:34

awesome stuff. But we have to acknowledge that, like, almost

leslie venetz: 00:24:39

everything we've ever been trained to do, was made by white

leslie venetz: 00:24:43

men for white men. And it's time that we take up more space and

leslie venetz: 00:24:47

it's time that we use those parameters that we know work but

leslie venetz: 00:24:51

put it in our own voice and use our unique perspectives and

leslie venetz: 00:24:54

lived experiences. So that's a big one. I mean, feel like those

leslie venetz: 00:24:58

are two huge ones. I don't know If I have a third, those are two

leslie venetz: 00:25:01

huge ones.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:02

Yeah. And so boundaries. That's another thing

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:07

that I work with these leaders on. I have a client who is

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:11

literally right now in Hawaii. And I know she's gonna listen to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:14

this podcast, because I'm gonna give it to her as an assignment.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:17

And she is in Hawaii. And I said, Okay, so how much working?

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:22

Are you going to be doing? Oh, I just can't cut it off. Not

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:25

acceptable, not acceptable. And what I found is you have to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:30

connect it to something that matters. So she has a daughter,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:33

that's four and a half years old. And I was like, do you do

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:36

realize this is the last vacation you're going to have

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:38

before she started school? So I want you to think about that.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:42

You don't have to think about homework, you don't have to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:44

think about any of these deadlines, like enjoy that,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:47

right? She's just like, Okay, if it falls apart, that's why I'm

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:51

here working with you, actually. But you have to turn it off.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:55

Because if you don't, again, we talked about mental health that

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:58

bleeds into that piece. And then the second piece last year, I

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:03

was presenting to some procurement departments, and I

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:06

started doing a lot of research on corporate sales trainers,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:11

because you know, we come in lots of different varieties.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:14

There's some people that only talk to entrepreneurs only want

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:17

to work in nonprofits, but corporate sales trainers once

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:19

talking to enterprise clients, and there are less than 10% of

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:24

corporate sales trainers that are women, and there are less

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:27

than 2% that are women of color. And why is that to be a sales

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:31

training, you have to have been in sales, right? And so in order

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:35

and so again, it's this trickle down effect that if we don't

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:39

start fixing the problem, at the beginning, at the start where it

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:43

is we have to really infiltrate and help these organizations

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:47

understand that what you're doing, I'm not saying that it's

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:51

wrong, I'm just saying that we can be better a client said to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:55

me this week Wesleyne, what was wrong? We were doing it was

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:59

working. I said it was working, okay. But now we're gonna,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:03

exactly, but now we need to ramp it up a little bit, right? We

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:07

can't, if you keep doing what you've always done, you're gonna

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:09

keep getting the same result. And so boundaries, diversity.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:13

And again, diversity is like the I'm a cupcake person, I talk

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:17

about cupcakes all the time is my analogies. And diversity is

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:19

like the sprinkles. If you get a handful of sprinkles, you're

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:22

like, Oh, that was a good sweet little treat. That's it. That's

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:25

all diversity is. It's just the sprinkles on top. And we have to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:29

get down to the inclusiveness, and then the equity and equity.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:32

That's the area that I talk about a lot, because I equity is

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:37

all about systems, right? And what we find in companies is the

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:40

systems are broken for everyone, but typically male, they know

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:44

how to work the system better. But those of us who've never

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:48

been taught or we don't have anybody teaching us or telling

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:50

us what to do a broken system hurts us a lot more. So when we

Wesleyne Greer: 00:27:54

fix the system, it works better for everyone people. So again,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:28:00

we both talked about playbooks and processes. And these are all

Wesleyne Greer: 00:28:02

bits and pieces. And I'm just kind of going on and on right

Wesleyne Greer: 00:28:05

now. But now I want to talk about this little special gem

Wesleyne Greer: 00:28:09

again, my cupcakes, right cupcakes, talking about my

Wesleyne Greer: 00:28:12

cupcakes first, I thought you were going to actually pick up a

Wesleyne Greer: 00:28:14

cup. From what? I need a cupcake at my desk. That's a good idea,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:28:21

Leslie. See, that's why you're this amazing person. So,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:28:25

cupcakes. We talked from our standpoint, we've talked all

Wesleyne Greer: 00:28:30

about your cake. We've talked about your icing and I want to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:28:32

talk about your sprinkles and your cherry. And that's this

Wesleyne Greer: 00:28:36

amazing lady that I know that is all about talking about sales on

Wesleyne Greer: 00:28:40

Tik Tok. Tell me about this thing.

leslie venetz: 00:28:44

I mean, it's so fun. And the reason that I

leslie venetz: 00:28:48

started creating content on Tik Tok was because I was really fed

leslie venetz: 00:28:52

up. I was really dissatisfied with a lot of the content I was

leslie venetz: 00:28:56

seeing on LinkedIn. Like it was it was really celebrating that

leslie venetz: 00:29:02

like hustle and grind, I wake up at 3am. Like if you're not

leslie venetz: 00:29:07

succeeding, you're not trying hard enough. And I love

leslie venetz: 00:29:11

LinkedIn, have an incredible community there. It's a great

leslie venetz: 00:29:13

place. But there are some elements of toxicity that are

leslie venetz: 00:29:16

like directly tied to completely ignoring the systemic issues

leslie venetz: 00:29:20

that might be holding somebody back. And I've had a really I

leslie venetz: 00:29:25

love that I have chosen sales as my profession. I love being a

leslie venetz: 00:29:30

b2b sales professional, but it's been a tough career. Like it has

leslie venetz: 00:29:34

been fraught with discrimination and sexism and sexual

leslie venetz: 00:29:39

harassment. And I just I felt like that conversation wasn't

leslie venetz: 00:29:42

happening on LinkedIn. And I wanted to find a place to have

leslie venetz: 00:29:45

that conversation to tell other women other people of color in

leslie venetz: 00:29:49

sales like it's okay, you're not alone. Like this isn't happening

leslie venetz: 00:29:52

to you in a silo. This is like it's not you. It's them and also

leslie venetz: 00:29:57

wanted to inspire that next generation of sales

leslie venetz: 00:30:00

professionals who might not be thinking about sales as a career

leslie venetz: 00:30:05

choice and letting them know like, Hey, your voice matters.

leslie venetz: 00:30:08

Like, we want you to join us. And also, there's a boatload of

leslie venetz: 00:30:11

money on the table. So like, come be a part of this

leslie venetz: 00:30:14

community. And I had a thought about where that message can be

leslie venetz: 00:30:19

best communicated. When tic tock really jumped out at me. I kind

leslie venetz: 00:30:22

of thought I was losing my dang mind when I made the choice.

leslie venetz: 00:30:26

Because it was right when there were all these discussions about

leslie venetz: 00:30:29

tic tock being banned in the US. It was right when clubhouse was

leslie venetz: 00:30:34

like the new sexy thing. And everybody was like breaking

leslie venetz: 00:30:37

their ankles to run the clubhouse. And I was like, Okay,

leslie venetz: 00:30:40

I'll just be over here. Making tic tock videos Cool. See,

leslie venetz: 00:30:45

anybody want to stop by. But it's been just like this

leslie venetz: 00:30:49

incredible, incredible experience. And I feel so

leslie venetz: 00:30:52

privileged and grateful to have created a community there and to

leslie venetz: 00:30:55

have made meaningful impact on people's lives. So it's great. I

leslie venetz: 00:31:00

love it. It's crazy, but I love it.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:03

I commend you because I think about tick tock

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:07

and I think about my 13 year old son that keeps bugging me saying

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:11

I want to tick tock account. That's what I think Zakum like,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:14

and you're like, No, but, but it's like, I think it really

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:19

goes back to what we're talking about sales is different now.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:23

And in order for us to embrace the difference in sales, we have

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:28

to be the change that we want to see, we can't talk about, okay,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:32

you're doing it wrong. And I'm just gonna keep falling right

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:34

along with you. We have to be that change. So for you saying

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:38

I'm going to try something different. And you have created

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:41

this great follower base. And I know in the b2b sales community,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:44

you are like the Tick Tock queen, like take sack, Leslie,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:47

tick tock Leslie, like, literally. And so creating a

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:50

space for yourself and helping others know that it's okay,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:54

right? Because what tic tock is all about videos. What happens

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:57

when you do videos, they're not always perfect, right? And so

leslie venetz: 00:32:00

they're almost always imperfect. Right? Like,

leslie venetz: 00:32:03

oh,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:32:05

let me say, I love that. So you have had such

Wesleyne Greer: 00:32:10

a amazing career. My question to you is, what is one thing that

Wesleyne Greer: 00:32:16

you are most excited about accomplishing?

leslie venetz: 00:32:18

One thing, honestly, I would say it's a

leslie venetz: 00:32:22

recent like moment of pride. And it was having the courage to

leslie venetz: 00:32:28

quit my corporate day job and become a full time entrepreneur.

leslie venetz: 00:32:34

And you know, earlier, we were talking about intuition and

leslie venetz: 00:32:37

trusting my intuition. And you know, even after all of the

leslie venetz: 00:32:40

lessons, I've learned, were trusting my intuition was always

leslie venetz: 00:32:44

the right choice. I still for like a full year, put up every

leslie venetz: 00:32:48

roadblock I could to talk myself out of like listening to the

leslie venetz: 00:32:53

universe, listening to my gut, doing sales team build our full

leslie venetz: 00:32:56

time. And so it really did take a lot of courage and like a deep

leslie venetz: 00:33:00

belief in myself to give up that safety net of a corporate job so

leslie venetz: 00:33:04

that I could focus 100% of my time on, you know, what has been

leslie venetz: 00:33:08

until now, like my purpose project and my passion project.

leslie venetz: 00:33:11

So I'm pretty proud of myself for that.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:14

It's a big step. I mean, anybody who's gone from

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:18

a corporate route, it's a full time entrepreneurship, this it

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:21

is scary. And I commend you for that, because it's definitely

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:25

not easy, especially a full time corporate sales job. It's not

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:29

like a regular nine to five, right? There is variable comp

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:32

there and you're like 100%, betting on myself. This has been

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:35

an amazing conversation. Lesley, we've talked about, I mean, all

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:40

things starting with tic tock, we talked about laying

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:43

boundaries, having a toxic workplace mental health. I mean,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:48

this conversation has given me everything that I could have

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:50

ever imagined. I thank you so much for sharing your time with

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:56

us. So what is the one best place that people can get in

Wesleyne Greer: 00:34:00

contact with you if they want to chat with you?

leslie venetz: 00:34:02

Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, you can find me on

leslie venetz: 00:34:05

Tik Tok at sales tips talk. And I'm also on Linked In. So please

leslie venetz: 00:34:09

connect with me

Wesleyne Greer: 00:34:10

there. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you again for

Wesleyne Greer: 00:34:13

sharing your time, your talent, your expertise with us. It has

Wesleyne Greer: 00:34:18

been an amazing conversation. Thanks so much, Leslie,

leslie venetz: 00:34:21

thank you so much for having me. I really

leslie venetz: 00:34:23

appreciated this conversation. And

Wesleyne Greer: 00:34:25

that was another episode of the science of

Wesleyne Greer: 00:34:29

selling stem. Remember in all that you do transform your

Wesleyne Greer: 00:34:34

sales. Until next time.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:34:36

Thank you for joining us today on the snack sized sales

Wesleyne Greer: 00:34:40

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Wesleyne Greer: 00:34:44

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