Episode 75
Modern Day Sales Success Strategies with Gene Plotkin
Get FREE Sales Leadership Resources at go.transformedsales.com/pod
Highlights
- What 16 years of holding about every single type of revenue driving role looks like (00:40)
- How he knew he had what it took to be a sales leader (03:31)
- Why every salesperson has to have a self care practice (06:47)
- Indicators that helped him determine whether he needed to make a career change (08:17)
- Going from customer success individual contributor to sales leader (14:12)
- Telling if an individual contributor is ready for a leadership role (19:09)
- Modern day recruitment, retention, and team success strategies for sales organizations (22:32)
- Being accommodating as a sales leader while also keeping things in line with your organization’s overall culture (28:14)
In this episode of the Transformed Sales Podcast, I sat down with Gene Plotkin, the VP of Corporate Sales at Mimeo, a company that provides the fastest, easiest, most reliable way to manage and distribute their content. Mimeo brings customers’ content to life through print and digital formats via its enterprise app suite and global print production facilities. Founded in 1999 as a startup, Mimeo has grown into a global organization, distributing content to customers in over 140 countries.
Over the last 16 years, Gene has held about every single type of revenue driving role as both an individual contributor and a leader at companies ranging from early stage startups to global enterprises. “To succeed in your sales career, you must do what comes naturally and focus on that”, he says. He will talk to us about how he managed to deal with burnout, why he decided to make a big career change, the value of working in customer success, how he has always been able to set himself up for promotions at a fast pace, why a salesperson being a top performer doesn’t always mean they have what it takes to lead a team, and so much more. Stay tuned for that and more.
Quotes
“Customer success is very much sales. It’s just the context of how you go about that is different” - Gene Plotkin
“Just because it seems like there’s more prestige at the top does not actually mean that that’s what you would be happier doing” - Gene Plotkin
“The individual contributor does not automatically make a good leader” - Gene Plotkin
Learn More About Gene in the Links Below:
- LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/geneplotkin/
- Email - GPlotkin@Mimeo.com
Connect with Wesleyne Greer:
- Wesleyne’s Website - https://transformedsales.com/
- Wesleyne on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/wesleynegreer/
- Wesleyne on Facebook - https://web.facebook.com/wesleynegreer
- Wesleyne on Twitter - https://twitter.com/wesleynegreer
- Email Her at wesleyne@transformedsales.com
Transcript
Hello, and welcome to the transformed sales
Wesleyne Greer:podcast where we talk all about the science of selling. Today. I
Wesleyne Greer:am so excited to have Jean Plotkin with us. How are you
Wesleyne Greer:doing?
Gene Plotkin:I'm doing excellent. Very excited to be
Gene Plotkin:here.
Wesleyne Greer:Thank you so much for joining us. Let me tell
Wesleyne Greer:you guys a little bit about Jean. Over the last 16 years,
Wesleyne Greer:he's held about every single type of revenue driving role as
Wesleyne Greer:both an individual contributor and a leader at companies
Wesleyne Greer:ranging from early stage startups to global enterprises.
Wesleyne Greer:He is currently the VP of Corporate sales at Mimeo. So G
Wesleyne Greer:16 years, almost two decades. Tell us how did you get started?
Wesleyne Greer:And how did you end up where you are today?
Gene Plotkin:Absolutely. So I never actually thought about
Gene Plotkin:kind of growing up never thought of sales as being kind of a
Gene Plotkin:profession. But I knew very early on that I had a talent for
Gene Plotkin:managing and leading people. And when I graduated college, I
Gene Plotkin:didn't really have a good direction, sort of went to
Gene Plotkin:business school, because that was really into into sports and
Gene Plotkin:playing hockey, and really didn't give my career too much
Gene Plotkin:thought other than, you know, I'm gonna go to business school
Gene Plotkin:get going to do something. So I graduated with a degree in
Gene Plotkin:marketing, but really realized very quickly, it wasn't for me,
Gene Plotkin:and I kind of had this idea of starting a business one day, and
Gene Plotkin:I figured that I was going to need to learn how to sell right
Gene Plotkin:and get a new customer. So I was good at interviewing, I went
Gene Plotkin:around, had many different interviews, ended up getting a
Gene Plotkin:job that was completely unqualified for the guy thought
Gene Plotkin:I was high energy, but there was no formal training of any kind.
Gene Plotkin:It was, here's an office, here's a laptop, you know, this was
Gene Plotkin:2006, everybody else has 17 plus years of experience. And I've
Gene Plotkin:never sold a thing. So that's how I started that that for a
Gene Plotkin:little while. And then I really got interested in the idea of
Gene Plotkin:influence and communication, right. And guys like Tony
Gene Plotkin:Robbins, and there's a few others that I listened to that.
Gene Plotkin:And I was really just fascinated by their command of language. So
Gene Plotkin:I started learning those kinds of things, neuro linguistic
Gene Plotkin:programming and psychology, just influence in general, I got
Gene Plotkin:certified as a hypnotist, fascinated with the field and
Gene Plotkin:then decided I was going to take that and kind of bring it into
Gene Plotkin:salesmen one way or another and going to start kind of a
Gene Plotkin:coaching consulting practice. And this was in 2007. So then
Gene Plotkin:2008 came, and that was not a good time to be starting a
Gene Plotkin:consulting practice. And even though I felt like I did, okay,
Gene Plotkin:I realized that after a few years, I spent 95% of my time
Gene Plotkin:selling, and then you know, delivering the actual goods was
Gene Plotkin:just kind of 5% of the time. So I figured why not go back into
Gene Plotkin:sales and join an early stage company as the first kind of
Gene Plotkin:customer facing employee. It was a sales enablement, platform,
Gene Plotkin:sales enablement, training kind of platform, really went from
Gene Plotkin:there meant a lot of really good people really started to learn
Gene Plotkin:the space of SAS and tech sales, and kinda took off from there.
Gene Plotkin:And before long, I was recruited into Mimeo, where I spent the
Gene Plotkin:last eight and a half years, and at that time was kind of burnt
Gene Plotkin:out from a lot of things. And I just said, you know, kind of
Gene Plotkin:give me the lowest responsibility that you could
Gene Plotkin:find within revenue, which is customer success, just for it
Gene Plotkin:was the simplest thing. So before I knew it, I got promoted
Gene Plotkin:into being an account executive into enterprise account
Gene Plotkin:executive business unit director, director of sales and
Gene Plotkin:eventually became vice president overseeing the enterprise space.
Wesleyne Greer:Wow. So your career, I really liked how it
Wesleyne Greer:started. And you said you always knew you had the special I like
Wesleyne Greer:to call it secret sauce, that you had this leadership
Wesleyne Greer:capability, this thought leadership, this really wanting
Wesleyne Greer:to develop people? How did you know so early on that that was
Wesleyne Greer:something that you were destined to do?
Gene Plotkin:Great question. My father would always say that
Gene Plotkin:it's funny how little things kind of stay with us, right? I
Gene Plotkin:just had this ability to organize people, whether it was
Gene Plotkin:playing sports, you know, outside and on the playground,
Gene Plotkin:or any kind of a project. It just kind of came very naturally
Gene Plotkin:to me to delegate and lead and kind of oversee and manage
Gene Plotkin:people. So ever since I was a kind of a little kid, my father
Gene Plotkin:would always said, you know, you need to be a manager, because
Gene Plotkin:you're just sort of innately kind of your thing. I don't
Gene Plotkin:know, there was just a quality that I felt that I had bringing
Gene Plotkin:people together and connecting them. And it really, I think
Gene Plotkin:came down to just being able to see what somebody is good at,
Gene Plotkin:and then kind of being confident about what you think that they
Gene Plotkin:should be doing at any given time. You know, kind of
Gene Plotkin:directing them to that.
Wesleyne Greer:Yeah, I think that a lot of us have this
Wesleyne Greer:innate ability to lead. You know, me being the oldest
Wesleyne Greer:sibling of three younger brothers. I think it was always
Wesleyne Greer:something that was in me, you know, like, hey, Wesleyne You're
Wesleyne Greer:a natural born leader. And I'm like, Oh, what are you talking
Wesleyne Greer:about? And then as my career evolved, I saw how that played
Wesleyne Greer:out like, yeah, and No matter whether I was the individual
Wesleyne Greer:contributor, or I was in a leadership role, I was always a
Wesleyne Greer:natural born leader.
Gene Plotkin:Yeah, being an older sibling, that's the same
Gene Plotkin:thing for me, right? You just kind of have to step into that.
Gene Plotkin:You have to organize, you know, your kind of family dynamic.
Gene Plotkin:Otherwise, you know, it doesn't work. So I think that that's
Gene Plotkin:definitely a part of it.
Wesleyne Greer:Absolutely. And so you dipped your toe into
Wesleyne Greer:entrepreneurship? And then you're like, yeah, no, maybe not
Wesleyne Greer:so much. And so this phenomenon that you said is, like, I was
Wesleyne Greer:selling 95% of the time, and the delivery was only 5%? How did
Wesleyne Greer:you find yourself always selling? Was it because that was
Wesleyne Greer:your natural propensity? Or was it just what you had to do?
Gene Plotkin:So it's, uh, the most important thing in any
Gene Plotkin:business is customers, right. And if you don't have those than
Gene Plotkin:there is no business really, that means you're just doing
Gene Plotkin:stuff, right without getting paid. So I think it was by
Gene Plotkin:necessity, right, you just need to, especially early on in that
Gene Plotkin:type of business, it's all about your ability to kind of acquire
Gene Plotkin:those first Cornerstone customers that you could then
Gene Plotkin:use to build, and, you know, and so on, and so forth. And so that
Gene Plotkin:was kind of a thing. But I've also had other kinds of ventures
Gene Plotkin:that I've started or have been a part of over the years, and
Gene Plotkin:where I'm at, you know, I'm gonna do the operational part,
Gene Plotkin:I'm good at that as well. But inevitably, it's one of those
Gene Plotkin:things where I'm like, I think I could do that better, you know,
Gene Plotkin:good, go through this, here's how it should look, here's what
Gene Plotkin:it is. And it's just something that innately comes to me. And
Gene Plotkin:before you know, it is just easier to get in there and do it
Gene Plotkin:yourself. When the business depends on it.
Wesleyne Greer:I completely understand. I find myself like,
Wesleyne Greer:I hate love. Because as a natural salesperson, it's like I
Wesleyne Greer:love the clothes, right? And then being an entrepreneur, you
Wesleyne Greer:have to balance the sales with the operations or the delivery
Wesleyne Greer:of it. So you mentioned being burned out at a point in your
Wesleyne Greer:career. This is something that you know, I think is so
Wesleyne Greer:important today, really understanding the need for
Wesleyne Greer:taking care of oneself self care. So what were the signs?
Wesleyne Greer:How did you know that you were at a point of burnout, and you
Wesleyne Greer:just needed to do something different?
Gene Plotkin:Yeah. So again, having your own business, I
Gene Plotkin:think there's a lot of societal romance around the idea of
Gene Plotkin:somebody being an entrepreneur, and what really, that means
Gene Plotkin:that, you know, it's always painted as this thing, or you're
Gene Plotkin:in charge, you get to do whatever you want, you know, if
Gene Plotkin:you want to sleep till noon, then that's your thing. No,
Gene Plotkin:that's the opposite, right? What you do is you have the
Gene Plotkin:responsibility of doing absolutely everything. And on
Gene Plotkin:top of that, you get to work double the hours, and you're the
Gene Plotkin:last one to get paid, right? Because everything is going into
Gene Plotkin:this child of your business. So it's a difficult thing. And I
Gene Plotkin:think a lot of people, myself included, would be much happier
Gene Plotkin:doing the thing that comes naturally to them, and focusing
Gene Plotkin:on that, and then letting somebody else. You know, being a
Gene Plotkin:CEO of a company or an entrepreneur is not an easy
Gene Plotkin:thing. And I think only a select few people can really do it, and
Gene Plotkin:really have the sacrifice that it takes to make that happen,
Gene Plotkin:right. And I got to witness very successful entrepreneurs who
Gene Plotkin:have taken companies public, I got to work very closely with
Gene Plotkin:them. And I preferred that dynamic of letting them do what
Gene Plotkin:they do. And I can focus on doing what I'm good at, which is
Gene Plotkin:acquiring customers, which is, you know, growing the business
Gene Plotkin:from a revenue standpoint,
Wesleyne Greer:so how, what are some of the things that you knew
Wesleyne Greer:when you were like, Okay, it's time for me to make a change?
Wesleyne Greer:Because either an entrepreneur or a person who's working in a
Wesleyne Greer:corporate position, sometimes you don't know? Is it me? Is it
Wesleyne Greer:the company? Is the position? Is it my time of life? So what are
Wesleyne Greer:some of those indicators you use to say, Okay, I need to make a
Wesleyne Greer:big change within my career?
Gene Plotkin:Well, I think seeing the growth, or perhaps
Gene Plotkin:the lack thereof, I think, making connections with people
Gene Plotkin:whom you think you want to be like, right, in finding those
Gene Plotkin:mentors, especially early on in the career, I think is very
Gene Plotkin:important. And then observing them right. And then seeing, you
Gene Plotkin:know, here are the really cool things that I would like to have
Gene Plotkin:out of life, you know, the big apartment, the network, the
Gene Plotkin:prestige, so to speak, what's the hidden cost of that? Right?
Gene Plotkin:You know, and that's the thing, where, and how is that? How does
Gene Plotkin:that connect with your life? And ultimately, what you want to do,
Gene Plotkin:right? Do you want to work 20 477 days a week? Do you work
Gene Plotkin:really well, when there is no structure? Right? Where you kind
Gene Plotkin:of have to define your own word? Or do you work better within a
Gene Plotkin:structure that's outlined for you? So I think that was a part
Gene Plotkin:of it. I think, you know, truthfully, I just wasn't seeing
Gene Plotkin:the kind of traction that I was hoping to. And, you know, I, it
Gene Plotkin:was one of those things where I gave it an honest shot. And
Gene Plotkin:really, if I'm spending most of my time doing this thing, and I
Gene Plotkin:could just be doing that thing, getting highly compensated for
Gene Plotkin:it, and not have to worry about all of those other things. You
Gene Plotkin:know, I think, I think the realization came when I was
Gene Plotkin:doing something and I was building were working on my
Gene Plotkin:website and build some widget that would be like a referral
Gene Plotkin:thing and, and I got very excited about it. And then I
Gene Plotkin:went, well, this isn't at all what I signed up to do. This
Gene Plotkin:isn't at all what I was. decided to do what I thought I would be
Gene Plotkin:doing. And I think that that was kind of one of those catalysts
Gene Plotkin:of that. And I think talking to somebody who I looked up to, and
Gene Plotkin:I said, you know, you do if I, if you were me, and he said, If
Gene Plotkin:I were you, I'd get a job. And I kind of got hurt by that in the
Gene Plotkin:beginning. And then it kind of sat there for a week or two, it
Gene Plotkin:started to make sense. And then just life kind of handed me an
Gene Plotkin:opportunity to join a very early stage company where the CEO had
Gene Plotkin:just taken a company public, and I knew to be working directly
Gene Plotkin:for him would be a really good career move in and ended up
Gene Plotkin:being
Wesleyne Greer:awesome. So we don't often talk about the other
Wesleyne Greer:side of sales, customer success. And you at one point in your
Wesleyne Greer:career, you said, hey, I want to still do something in sales, but
Wesleyne Greer:maybe not as high pressure, something a little bit
Wesleyne Greer:different. So tell us about your role in customer success. And
Wesleyne Greer:what that taught you to exit because I really think that
Wesleyne Greer:everything that we do within our career helps us see something
Wesleyne Greer:from a different perspective or understand from a different
Wesleyne Greer:lens. So talk to us about that customer success role.
Gene Plotkin:Yeah, and customer success is very much sales,
Gene Plotkin:right? It's just the context of how you're going about it is a
Gene Plotkin:little bit different. So for me, I was recruited into Mimeo. And
Gene Plotkin:for years, I kept saying no, and actually how I got recruited
Gene Plotkin:into it was through that job I ended up taking, we ended up
Gene Plotkin:interviewing somebody, and then that person kind of stayed in
Gene Plotkin:touch with me and tried to recruit me for, for joining the
Gene Plotkin:company. And customer success was interesting, because you
Gene Plotkin:here, you know, at that point, I spent close to eight years going
Gene Plotkin:out and hunting. And as you may know that that's it's a
Gene Plotkin:difficult thing. And most of the time, you know, people are not
Gene Plotkin:excited to talk to you. So all of a sudden, I had a list of 200
Gene Plotkin:customers who when I picked up the phone did not hang up, that
Gene Plotkin:was not their immediate kind of thing I needed to overcome. They
Gene Plotkin:actually say, Oh, hey, you know, Yep, thank you for calling. And
Gene Plotkin:then we started talking about their business. And that was a
Gene Plotkin:really a kind of a big shift, what was different for me, and
Gene Plotkin:why I think I was able to succeed, the way that I did is I
Gene Plotkin:brought that hustle that I've had for years, that pace of
Gene Plotkin:working at a early stage company, or my own company, or
Gene Plotkin:whatever it happens to be where you really need to make
Gene Plotkin:everything happen. And all of a sudden, now I brought it into an
Gene Plotkin:existing customer base. So I knew how to generate the
Gene Plotkin:excitement and the passion. And then some of it is just, you
Gene Plotkin:know, hard work, right, it was getting a hold of these people.
Gene Plotkin:And you know, if somebody moved on to a different company, and
Gene Plotkin:just came very naturally to me, and all of a sudden, before I
Gene Plotkin:knew it, I was outperforming pretty much all of my all the
Gene Plotkin:peers that were there. And I didn't come I didn't have a
Gene Plotkin:plan. I felt like I've had a plan up until that point where
Gene Plotkin:whatever company I joined and coming into Mimeo, I really
Gene Plotkin:didn't have a plan that six months to spend before that was
Gene Plotkin:just trying to figure out if I could start another business or
Gene Plotkin:not. And I couldn't come up with an idea that would yield the
Gene Plotkin:kind of results I wanted in the timeframe I was comfortable
Gene Plotkin:with. I was looking to start a family. So I just said, hey, why
Gene Plotkin:not do this. And I had no plan I just wanted to do really well. I
Gene Plotkin:knew at some point I wanted to go into management, I didn't
Gene Plotkin:even mention that. I just kind of took it on. And then once I
Gene Plotkin:started to see the success, and I think it was evident to
Gene Plotkin:everybody around me, that's when those conversations started
Gene Plotkin:coming naturally of what do you want to do next. And I said, Oh,
Gene Plotkin:I'm interested in managing. And I've had some of that experience
Gene Plotkin:in the past. And all of a sudden, you know, the track was
Gene Plotkin:available for me,
Wesleyne Greer:I love that you said by having to hustle and
Wesleyne Greer:hunt that really made you so much better and customer success
Wesleyne Greer:because I feel that a lot of companies, they just stick
Wesleyne Greer:people in customer success. First of all, everybody's
Wesleyne Greer:renamed it to from customer service to customer success,
Wesleyne Greer:because hey, this is what we want to do. But they're not
Wesleyne Greer:actually thinking this is essentially a sales job. Because
Wesleyne Greer:I like to say there's two ways to grow revenue by getting more
Wesleyne Greer:from existing customers or getting new customers what's
Wesleyne Greer:easier. And so your role after the sale has ended. I mean,
Wesleyne Greer:there's still so much more to do to retain the customer to get
Wesleyne Greer:more value from them, to sell them more products to get
Wesleyne Greer:referrals, all of those things that happen on the back end. So
Wesleyne Greer:as a customer success, individual contributor, you made
Wesleyne Greer:a very fast ascent to leadership, how and each and
Wesleyne Greer:every one of your roles. How did you set yourself up for the next
Wesleyne Greer:promotion?
Gene Plotkin:Well, I'd say the first thing is you got to do
Gene Plotkin:really well let the job description that's given to you
Gene Plotkin:currently, right, exceed those expectations. First, make it
Gene Plotkin:very known and clear that this is the path that you want right
Gene Plotkin:to management, right. And I think that being on the other
Gene Plotkin:side of it being a leader now for many years, there's nothing
Gene Plotkin:better than somebody really asserting themselves and saying
Gene Plotkin:this is what I want to do, especially if they're a star
Gene Plotkin:performer because now you know what the career path is. Now you
Gene Plotkin:know what the retention path for this person is? Because as
Gene Plotkin:leaders, we're always thinking about that right? What is this
Gene Plotkin:person doing especially if you see that they're super Star, you
Gene Plotkin:know, how long can they stay in that role before they are either
Gene Plotkin:approached or they get hungry for more or, you know, whatever
Gene Plotkin:it happens to be right. So I think for me, it was, I'm going
Gene Plotkin:to do really well, I'm going to keep my mouth shut, right, do
Gene Plotkin:really well at what I'm supposed to be doing, and then make it
Gene Plotkin:clear. And then the last part is actively start doing things that
Gene Plotkin:to help others, right. So for me, it was, here's a template I
Gene Plotkin:wrote, when I got to Miami, we were not as advanced as coming,
Gene Plotkin:especially from the emerging sales enablement space, right,
Gene Plotkin:there were a lot of tools I had at my disposal. And I just
Gene Plotkin:looked around, and I said, I could do this 10 times more
Gene Plotkin:efficiently. And so that was one of those things where I said,
Gene Plotkin:here, this is how you find contacts. This is how you
Gene Plotkin:utilize the Yesware and utilize templates to write an email
Gene Plotkin:once, right, and just created a lot of systems that really
Gene Plotkin:worked for me, or I've learned, you know, in the past, but
Gene Plotkin:again, coming at it with a lot more experienced than I think
Gene Plotkin:that the folks that would be in that a lot more wide experience,
Gene Plotkin:there were people that spent more time in a sales role, but I
Gene Plotkin:just had a very eclectic kind of group of skills and talents, and
Gene Plotkin:just things that I've learned along the way, and then actively
Gene Plotkin:sharing that, like I was not holding on to any of it. So by
Gene Plotkin:the time it came to making the promotion, I've already had the
Gene Plotkin:respect of my peers, because not only was I outperforming, you
Gene Plotkin:know, just about most of them was one of the top performers.
Gene Plotkin:So that spoke for itself. But I was also actively doing things
Gene Plotkin:to help and contributing in meetings and whatever it happens
Gene Plotkin:to be. So one kind of that opening happened, basically, the
Gene Plotkin:team stepped up and said, you know, Gene should lead us. And
Gene Plotkin:you know, that's the ultimate in terms of helping convince people
Gene Plotkin:to give somebody a leadership job as if the team that they're
Gene Plotkin:already on says, you know, I think it'd be a good idea if you
Gene Plotkin:know, he steps in or she steps in, and I would follow them.
Gene Plotkin:Right. So I think that was a big thing.
Wesleyne Greer:You gave us some really, really good gems there.
Wesleyne Greer:And I want to make sure that I highlight them many times, we
Wesleyne Greer:think that, hey, a top performer is going to be a good manager.
Wesleyne Greer:And yes, that is one component. But something else that you said
Wesleyne Greer:is having that propensity just to help when you didn't have to
Wesleyne Greer:write just to show up and say, Hey, let me show you how to do
Wesleyne Greer:this. Here's a template, stepping up as a leader without
Wesleyne Greer:their leader title, I think is a really important thing that we
Wesleyne Greer:should look for, when we're looking to promote from within.
Gene Plotkin:Yeah, raise your hands for things, raise your
Gene Plotkin:hands for this, right. You know, I just recently, last year,
Gene Plotkin:COVID kind of hit us hard. And we're in the space of business,
Gene Plotkin:the business content distribution. And a lot of that
Gene Plotkin:happens during, you know, meetings in person events,
Gene Plotkin:training sessions, you know, whatever it happens to be. And
Gene Plotkin:obviously, that was impacted. But as a result of it, we had to
Gene Plotkin:kind of shrink down our sales development team, as well as
Gene Plotkin:some other teams. And it was difficult, but we got through on
Gene Plotkin:the other side, we're growing aggressively, I think we've had
Gene Plotkin:probably one of the best years we've ever had in terms of
Gene Plotkin:growth. And we'll continue on that path. But one of the things
Gene Plotkin:coming out of it was we needed to rebuild our sales development
Gene Plotkin:team. So I stepped up and I said, I want to do the
Gene Plotkin:recruiting for it, I'm gonna hire the manager, I'm gonna hire
Gene Plotkin:the team back up. All right. And luckily, in our organization,
Gene Plotkin:you get those kinds of chances. But that was interested in me,
Gene Plotkin:and I was able to deliver and learn something new along the
Gene Plotkin:way. And, but those are those kinds of things where step up,
Gene Plotkin:and if there's a project to be done, then put your you know,
Gene Plotkin:make it clear that you want that responsibility.
Wesleyne Greer:Absolutely remove the it's not my job, so
Wesleyne Greer:I'm not going to do it, or I'm not getting paid for that.
Wesleyne Greer:Because if that's your mindset, then leadership is not what you
Wesleyne Greer:should be doing at this point, right? You're still in the
Wesleyne Greer:mindset of an individual contributor, because as you
Wesleyne Greer:said, it was like, Okay, I didn't have to, but I actually
Wesleyne Greer:cared about the success of the organization. And since I cared
Wesleyne Greer:about the success of the organization, I'm going to say,
Wesleyne Greer:yes, hey, let me help push this initiative forward.
Gene Plotkin:100%, I do think that it's a there's a good point
Gene Plotkin:that you made about the individual contributor does not
Gene Plotkin:automatically make a good leader. And I think a lot of
Gene Plotkin:individual contributors are very, especially in sales.
Gene Plotkin:They're all about getting the job done and all about there's,
Gene Plotkin:there's that kind of mentality of I'm all about it. And listen,
Gene Plotkin:we have fabulous sales reps. I think maybe it was unique in
Gene Plotkin:that we're able to retain our talent in a way that I have not
Gene Plotkin:seen other organizations. That's why I've been here for eight and
Gene Plotkin:a half years. You know, but the folks that I managed now, I
Gene Plotkin:mean, the company's you know, 2324 years old, our most senior
Gene Plotkin:sales rep is one has been with the company for 20 years. Wow.
Gene Plotkin:And that's a big testament to the product and the service that
Gene Plotkin:we have because salespeople won't stay at a company for 20
Gene Plotkin:years unless they're doing well. You know, it's 20 years. It's 15
Gene Plotkin:years. It's 14 years. It's those kinds of things that those are
Gene Plotkin:the kinds of folks I manage these days. But all that is to
Gene Plotkin:say is they're very happy in being an individual contributor,
Gene Plotkin:they have a lifestyle that they've built around that. And
Gene Plotkin:that's what they want to do. Right? Certainly, they've had
Gene Plotkin:opportunities, you know, if they would have wanted to become
Gene Plotkin:leaders, in fact, some of them have, and then decided to take a
Gene Plotkin:step back and say, I'm happier as an individual contributor,
Gene Plotkin:this is all something that I could control. I know how to do
Gene Plotkin:this, I know how to do this well, as opposed to being in
Gene Plotkin:charge of other people, which comes with its own burdens.
Wesleyne Greer:Yeah. And I think that as a salesperson, or
Wesleyne Greer:even as a sales manager, understanding what your true
Wesleyne Greer:passions and drives are in life are important, because there are
Wesleyne Greer:companies that I've worked with, and we've said, Hey, this
Wesleyne Greer:manager isn't a good manager, but there's such a strong
Wesleyne Greer:individual contributor, let's give them the option to go back
Wesleyne Greer:and be an individual contributor. And they worked
Wesleyne Greer:well, right. And then you have that salesperson who's been
Wesleyne Greer:trying to move into management for so long, and they just can't
Wesleyne Greer:get a break. And you it takes a person to say, Hey, I see you
Wesleyne Greer:and I want to elevate you. And so I think that as a
Wesleyne Greer:salesperson, and as a leader, we need to recognize what our
Wesleyne Greer:team's what their long term path is. Because some people are
Wesleyne Greer:like, I just want to be in sales for 30 years and retire and be
Wesleyne Greer:done. Some people are like, I want to go all the way I want to
Wesleyne Greer:be a CEO one day, I want to be a CRO one day, and that's okay.
Wesleyne Greer:And our job as leaders is to really help that person develop
Gene Plotkin:100%. And it's also okay to say, I want to
Gene Plotkin:manage a team, I don't want to be the CRO, I don't want to be
Gene Plotkin:the numbers guy or gal, right? I don't want the responsibility
Gene Plotkin:for the vision of where the state of sales organization is
Gene Plotkin:going. But I'm passionate about developing talent about closing
Gene Plotkin:sales and, and managing people. There's nothing wrong with that
Gene Plotkin:either, right. And I think, again, there's a lot of societal
Gene Plotkin:pressure to say, oh, continue pushing upwards at all costs,
Gene Plotkin:right. And then there's that idea that, you know, people get
Gene Plotkin:promoted up until the level where, you know, they become
Gene Plotkin:incompetent, because they've sort of got promoted above their
Gene Plotkin:capabilities. And then they think that they have to stay
Gene Plotkin:there. And a lot of people would be, again, happier, depending on
Gene Plotkin:where you are, because there's certain things that you're just
Gene Plotkin:better at, or you prefer according to your lifestyle,
Gene Plotkin:just because it seems like there's more prestige at the top
Gene Plotkin:does not actually mean that that's what you will be happier
Gene Plotkin:doing. And you know, what you'd want to do?
Wesleyne Greer:So you've been at your company for eight years,
Wesleyne Greer:and in your role for a number of years in through a pandemic, and
Wesleyne Greer:no less. So I'm curious, what are some of the current
Wesleyne Greer:challenges that you're experiencing? And things that
Wesleyne Greer:you're doing to overcome them?
Gene Plotkin:Yeah, great question. So you know, one of
Gene Plotkin:the things that I'm kind of really proud of is just the way
Gene Plotkin:that our organization has to respond quickly and swiftly to
Gene Plotkin:this pandemic. You know, it's a testament to our I think, our
Gene Plotkin:CEO and our leadership at the executive level, because, you
Gene Plotkin:know, starting a print tech company in the late 90s, and
Gene Plotkin:then keeping it alive through the because we're actually a.com
Gene Plotkin:company like one of the original ones, right. So it's mimeo.com,
Gene Plotkin:Inc, but to have that company through 911, right, and we're so
Gene Plotkin:many things got impacted through 2008, where so much of our
Gene Plotkin:business just disappeared overnight and never came back.
Gene Plotkin:And, you know, continuing that through and then going to the
Gene Plotkin:pandemic, they acted quickly and swiftly and we had to make some
Gene Plotkin:really difficult decisions to consolidate down and, you know,
Gene Plotkin:for a time actually had to step back into being an individual
Gene Plotkin:contributor in order for the math to work for everybody. So
Gene Plotkin:coming out of that last year, I had to both carry quota
Gene Plotkin:individually, and, you know, step up that way and manage a
Gene Plotkin:team. And then as I said, on top of that, I've volunteered to
Gene Plotkin:help rebuild and rehire our sales development team. So there
Gene Plotkin:was a lot to do as far as challenges. Now I think, just
Gene Plotkin:like anything else, you know, making sure that we're hiring
Gene Plotkin:good people that we continue to keep our current employees
Gene Plotkin:happy. And there's a new generation of sales folks
Gene Plotkin:entering the workforce, who are different and have different
Gene Plotkin:values, different type of work ethics are motivated by
Gene Plotkin:different things, and recruiting them and retaining them and
Gene Plotkin:training them and getting them to be successful in a day and
Gene Plotkin:age where it's becoming increasingly more difficult to
Gene Plotkin:get a hold of somebody from an outbound perspective. So you
Gene Plotkin:have to really work on you know, at our company, it's been
Gene Plotkin:hashtag win as a team, right? Because sales is no longer a you
Gene Plotkin:know, back in the day, you could just hire more salespeople and
Gene Plotkin:they will call call their way or whatever it happens to be into
Gene Plotkin:business. You can't do that. Now. It's customer success on
Gene Plotkin:one end of the funnel, it's marketing and awareness at the
Gene Plotkin:other end of that funnel, and sales folks are there to help
Gene Plotkin:bridge that gap, right, and help evangelize. So really finding
Gene Plotkin:that, that kind of working as a team approach where I'm now
Gene Plotkin:aligning my team with some of these folks Just coming out of
Gene Plotkin:college was so green, and then teaching them and building the
Gene Plotkin:work ethic and the focus that it takes to be successful. I'd say
Gene Plotkin:those are the kind of the biggest challenges that we've
Gene Plotkin:been kind of in, in the midst of of addressing right now.
Wesleyne Greer:Yes, the multi generational workforce. And we
Wesleyne Greer:have, I think, four or five generations in the workforce
Wesleyne Greer:right now. And so really having to lead the baby boomers that
Wesleyne Greer:are on their way out all the way down to Gen Z, right, who are
Wesleyne Greer:just entering the workforce and having to balance that, right.
Wesleyne Greer:Because one thing that sales leaders know is every person is
Wesleyne Greer:an individual. And yes, that's true. But then you also have to
Wesleyne Greer:go into those generational things, right? So you can send
Wesleyne Greer:your Gen Z salesperson in a quick tags. But if you do that
Wesleyne Greer:to a baby boomer, they're probably offended. Right? It's
Wesleyne Greer:so you have to understand what each person needs and making
Wesleyne Greer:sure that that person that's just coming into the workforce,
Wesleyne Greer:kind of like you are when you're like, I was so excited. And they
Wesleyne Greer:hired me because I was high energy. We know that it takes a
Wesleyne Greer:little bit more than high energy these days to be a good
Wesleyne Greer:salesperson.
Gene Plotkin:Yeah, 100%. And I think there's that focus. And
Gene Plotkin:yeah, I mean, as I said, my most senior rep has been with the
Gene Plotkin:company for 20 years, I think the most senior person at at the
Gene Plotkin:company I've hired, she has more sales experience than I've been
Gene Plotkin:a year as I've been alive, right. And she's amazing. But
Gene Plotkin:it's very different than somebody that we've hired, that
Gene Plotkin:is just out of college, they've never had a single sales job in
Gene Plotkin:their life. And they're things that you get put in a position
Gene Plotkin:to get put in as a manager that's completely new, and you
Gene Plotkin:don't know how to react because there are these social norms.
Gene Plotkin:And now this new generation seems to completely break them,
Gene Plotkin:right. So you don't necessarily know how to react with somebody
Gene Plotkin:just gets hired. And then a week into it, they send you a text in
Gene Plotkin:the morning saying, I got up and I'm feeling kind of slow today,
Gene Plotkin:I'm going to be out the first half the day, and I go, I don't
Gene Plotkin:know how to respond to that, right? What's the appropriate
Gene Plotkin:thing I understand mental health, you know, mental
Gene Plotkin:wellness, and all of that. And it's just a very different kind
Gene Plotkin:of thing, where in the past, that's like, you know, you'd
Gene Plotkin:have to be on your deathbed to not make it to work. In the
Gene Plotkin:first in the first year of your job, right? You're there, you
Gene Plotkin:know, at 730. And you don't leave until seven. And that's
Gene Plotkin:just that's not the case now, right? And everybody wants
Gene Plotkin:flexibility. I think individualism is a lot more
Gene Plotkin:important and all those things, so really have to adjust for
Gene Plotkin:that and understand who you're talking to, and how you could
Gene Plotkin:connect with them in a way that makes sense. Right? So how do
Gene Plotkin:you drive that urgency while still being sensitive to their
Gene Plotkin:individual feelings and mental health and all that stuff?
Gene Plotkin:That's an interesting journey.
Wesleyne Greer:Absolutely. I 100% agree. I'm just you know,
Wesleyne Greer:giggling because thinking about like, you know, it's like, okay,
Wesleyne Greer:even if there isn't a rule of you're on probation, it's like,
Wesleyne Greer:the first three months, you just don't call in, you don't take
Wesleyne Greer:off because you're just scared, right? And that's kind of the
Wesleyne Greer:way that we grew up in being culture where but my younger
Wesleyne Greer:brother, he's like, oh, yeah, I don't, I don't feel good. I'm
Wesleyne Greer:just going in late. I'm like, What do you mean, you're going
Wesleyne Greer:and like, helped me understand what does that mean? Like, help
Wesleyne Greer:me, right. And so I think as leaders, we have to understand
Wesleyne Greer:what we have to do to push a little because that same person
Wesleyne Greer:who's like, I'm coming in late, they'll be working until eight
Wesleyne Greer:or nine o'clock at night, right? Because I like I'm gonna do my
Wesleyne Greer:eight hours, I'm just gonna do it at a different time. There
Wesleyne Greer:was one time I had an employee, and she was like, Yeah, I just,
Wesleyne Greer:you know, is working eight to five, it's not working for me.
Wesleyne Greer:So I was wondering, Can I come in at 12? And I was like, we'll
Wesleyne Greer:try it. And we'll see how it goes. Unfortunately, it didn't
Wesleyne Greer:work out well, for but I was open to it. Right. I was like,
Wesleyne Greer:let's try it. I'm not just gonna say no, as we would have been in
Wesleyne Greer:the past, like, no, it's in the box.
Gene Plotkin:Yeah, I think you bring up a good point, as you
Gene Plotkin:want to be willing, you want to be flexible, and you want to be
Gene Plotkin:accommodating. But you also have to remember the overall culture
Gene Plotkin:that you're looking to build, right? So and your culture is
Gene Plotkin:it's what you do, right? It's what you let people get away
Gene Plotkin:with. It's what you accept, right? So if you have to
Gene Plotkin:counterbalance that with, I want to be sensitive to this person's
Gene Plotkin:individual needs. But if I do that, for them, I've just set a
Gene Plotkin:new standard. And then you created a new culture in which
Gene Plotkin:it's acceptable to set your own hours and work from whenever to
Gene Plotkin:whenever and you want. In some cases, that's okay, depending on
Gene Plotkin:what you do. But if you're a sales team, and you know you're
Gene Plotkin:selling into the East Coast, probably not the best idea.
Wesleyne Greer:Exactly, exactly. Make sure that the
Wesleyne Greer:company's mission, visions and values are aligned with the
Wesleyne Greer:teams and it goes down to the individual so you can make sure
Wesleyne Greer:that that translates up and down the food chain. So you've had a
Wesleyne Greer:very, very vast broad career and so I'm curious what is one thing
Wesleyne Greer:personally or professionally that you are most proud Have
Wesleyne Greer:accomplishing?
Gene Plotkin:Well, on the individual, a personal front
Gene Plotkin:that it's, it's by far and away having kids, I have a couple of
Gene Plotkin:young boys ages, one just turned 15 months today and the other
Gene Plotkin:one is five and a half. So nothing has been as rewarding or
Gene Plotkin:as challenging or as, as far as pride. Those are far and away my
Gene Plotkin:number one. Yeah. But from a career standpoint, I think just
Gene Plotkin:being able to persevere and to come into an organization and
Gene Plotkin:really grow through the ranks and get to a place where you
Gene Plotkin:really do feel like you're part of the actual culture of the
Gene Plotkin:company, and you're getting to shape that. I think that that
Gene Plotkin:would be the thing I'm most proud of. from a professional
Gene Plotkin:standpoint.
Wesleyne Greer:Awesome. Your boys and your career. I have two
Wesleyne Greer:boys two, so 15 months and five. I can imagine you're having lots
Wesleyne Greer:of fun right now. But
Gene Plotkin:yeah, I love it. It's challenging. It's hard,
Gene Plotkin:right. And as soon as my work at memmio ends, that's when my real
Gene Plotkin:job begins of being a father and getting, you know, doing the
Gene Plotkin:homework and cleaning and making them dinner and getting them to
Gene Plotkin:bed. So it never stops.
Wesleyne Greer:Yes. Homework. We have a couple weeks left
Wesleyne Greer:here. Like oh, yes. Oh, work. I didn't know, second grade was
Wesleyne Greer:gonna be so hard, man. It seems
Gene Plotkin:like I'm the one doing homework not you know, to
Gene Plotkin:be fair, I mean, he's in kindergarten, right? So I think
Gene Plotkin:there's just an I think this translates back into sales is I
Gene Plotkin:think there's this idea that more volume of something is
Gene Plotkin:going to lead to better results. And whether it's more homework
Gene Plotkin:or more, you know, start younger or whatever, I don't necessarily
Gene Plotkin:subscribe to that. I think you have to be smart and see if the
Gene Plotkin:results are really matching the hypothesis of, hey, if you start
Gene Plotkin:somebody doing something early, or you give them this stuff,
Gene Plotkin:does that actually make them better? Or do you feel like
Gene Plotkin:you're doing something, right? That's the old kind of the jokes
Gene Plotkin:around man and sales management. As you know, the manager just
Gene Plotkin:kind of comes in and says, you know, are you guys working hard,
Gene Plotkin:and you know, and make sure we call all the leads and make sure
Gene Plotkin:you're following up and tell them this. And if there's
Gene Plotkin:anything at all you need you call me for help. And after a
Gene Plotkin:while, you kind of roll your eyes and go, Yeah, okay, come
Gene Plotkin:on. I understand my business and I get it, but you feel like you
Gene Plotkin:have to say something. So really being able to add value to any
Gene Plotkin:kind of an individual contributor, really see what it
Gene Plotkin:is that they need, and sometimes reflect back to them, the things
Gene Plotkin:that are unpleasant for them, but will push them harder, that
Gene Plotkin:I think is really what defines a really key successful leader
Gene Plotkin:that could get the most out of out of people, even against
Gene Plotkin:their own sort of pre judgments. You know,
Wesleyne Greer:I love to say quality over quantity, it's more
Wesleyne Greer:important to have valuable touches and valuable impact than
Wesleyne Greer:just a lot. So let's have a good one meeting a week instead of
Wesleyne Greer:three or four that are just beating you over the head with
Wesleyne Greer:KPIs or going through the CRM. Right, let's focus on what is
Wesleyne Greer:important. 100% Thank you so much, Jean, this has been a such
Wesleyne Greer:a delightful conversation, what is the one best way that people
Wesleyne Greer:can get in contact with you if they're curious?
Gene Plotkin:Sure. I'm on LinkedIn, just search for me
Gene Plotkin:Jean Plotkin memmio. And that would be the most direct way to
Gene Plotkin:get in contact with me, or you could send me an email. Je
Gene Plotkin:plotkin@mimeo.com
Wesleyne Greer:Awesome. And all of that will be in the show
Wesleyne Greer:notes. So thank you so much again, Jean, for sharing your
Wesleyne Greer:time, your talent and your expertise with us. We definitely
Wesleyne Greer:appreciate it.
Gene Plotkin:Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed
Gene Plotkin:the conversation.
Wesleyne Greer:Awesome. And that was another episode of the
Wesleyne Greer:transformed sales podcast. Remember, it's all about the
Wesleyne Greer:science of selling. It's not just about beating your
Wesleyne Greer:salespeople over the head with KPIs. Focus on teaching them the
Wesleyne Greer:how behind selling, not just the what, until next time
