Fast Track to Sales Leadership Success with Gary Guymon

Wesleyne Greer: 00:00:06

Welcome to another episode of the transform

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sales podcast today. I am so excited to have Gary Gaiman with

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me today. How are you, Gary? I'm doing well. And thanks for

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having me. How are you doing? Well, I'm doing well. Let me

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tell you a little bit about Gary. He was born in Santa

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Clara, California, and he grew up all over California. He

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played sports, ran track and played football and was an

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editor of the literary magazine. He started in accounting firms

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center all around the California Enterprise Program. He is now a

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sales manager at expert net. So, Gary, tell us how did you go

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from playing sports traveling around the state to becoming a

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sales manager? Yeah, so Well, I played sports in high school, I

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mostly coached in college, I ran a little bit of club track, and

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competed on that level. But I never ran collegiately. But I

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interned while I was in college at a tax accounting firm. And

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they specialize in the California enterprise zone,

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which really helped out economically distressed areas

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throughout California to help give them a tax credit. And it

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was something that that was very fulfilling. And it gave me an

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opportunity to have a career coming straight out of college

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and one of my mentors at the tax accounting firm, elected to

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start a new firm with me. So I got licensed as a tax preparer.

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And we started from the ground up, no customer base, no

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anything, just figured we could figure it out as we went along.

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And we built it from nothing and sustained it for about seven and

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a half years when the governor of California did elected to

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shut down the program. And my business partner at the time

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wanted to convert our tax firm into just a traditional

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accounting firm, which wasn't really something that I wanted

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to do. So I elected to sell him my portion of the company. And I

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just uprooted and went to Seattle, Washington, one of my

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buddies played football for the University of Washington and

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convinced me to move up there. So I went up just kind of took a

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retail job, sort of on a hiatus to figure out what I wanted to

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do. And my next career steps and I was contacted by a

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telecommunications company called NTT communications.

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They're a Japanese company, fortune 100. And I had never

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heard of them before. So I did some some research, it was very,

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very interesting. I'm the kind of person who likes to take

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opportunities based on how much I can learn and can grow in that

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industry. And being that the job that was presented to me was

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centered around the internet. And the internet is changing

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every single day. I mean, the growth potential is limitless.

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So I kind of jumped at the opportunity started at the

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bottom from an inside sales rep, and worked my way up to a global

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account manager. And then I was recruited by exponet, who was a

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customer of NTT communications. So I really hit it off with the

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CTO, they flew me out to Los Angeles to meet the CEO. And

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then we hit it off as well. I think my interview was about

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like seven or eight hours while I was down here, was went from

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dinner to rooftop of the building to just everywhere,

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just talking. And then needless to say, I accepted the position.

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But I originally started as a global sales manager, and then I

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worked my way up to what I am now as a VP of sales. So your

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journey in life, you started out as a as an accountant, and then

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you decided, okay, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm gonna

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take a different step. And you took a huge leap and just move

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to another state. So when you move to another state, and you

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decided to get into retail, did you miss anything about being in

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that accounting world? I think I kind of missed the just going

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after the customer base. I mean, you work in a retail store,

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people just walk in, they have a specific need. And your only job

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is to sort of upsell them, there is no real like, hunting

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involved in that. And I missed that. Because I mean, that was a

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huge part of what we did is we were cold calling going door to

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door back when that was still relevant. And that part of it

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was something that I found to really love and I missed that in

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the retail aspect of selling. You like cold calling. I don't

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know how many people that I can say hang their hat on. I missed

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cold calling when I had to cold call. I missed it. I don't think

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that's something a lot of people say. So getting into retail,

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then you move back into that business to business space. So

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what lessons did you extract from that retail sales

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environment that you actually employed when you worked for

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NTT?

Gary Guymon: 00:04:52

I think it was just being more personable. That was

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something I struggled with originally in my career path,

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but being in retail, you have to be personable otherwise You will

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not be successful. And that's something I kind of carried with

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me and I, I learned to kind of develop a sales style of selling

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myself and making sure that I'm a likable person and earning the

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trust of a customer, as opposed to trying to sell them a

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product, because I think most people have an idea of what they

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want anyway. So it's whether or not they trust you in what

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you're selling. And that's kind of something I learned in the

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retail world. That's so good. The likability the trust factor,

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because you're right, if I'm walking into a retail store, I

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can go next door and get the same thing. So why do I stop and

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say, Here's my credit card buy from me? And a lot of times in

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the b2b sales world that doesn't quite translate, it's like, ah,

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yeah, well, this is what I want to I want you to buy this, buy

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this buy this, it's all about the products. It's all about a

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future dump. But it seems like you took the those key skills

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you learn in the b2c world and translated them to the b2b

Gary Guymon: 00:05:59

world. That's correct. Yeah, I learned pretty quick too, at

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NTT, that most of the people that you're pitching and trying

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to sell know your product better than you do as a sales rep being

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that they're all technical. And they have to be very, very

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knowledgeable in what they do. So they're buying because at

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NTT, we were selling wholesale internet. And that product is

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something that they need to be well versed in. So for me to try

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to speak to them on their level is not something that I could do

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as a sales rep, starting out. So the only really selling point

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that I had was myself, and I just built my career off of

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that. That's good. That's so good. Because a lot of times in

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our technical realm, I was actually just working with a

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client today. And she was like, what, Wesleyne? I don't know

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this as much as they do. And I don't know this, and I don't

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know that and I'm like, Yeah, okay, you know, your world, they

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know their world, right? So let them stay in their space, and

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you have to bring value, you have to add things to them so

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that they're like, okay, this person isn't trying to act like

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they're the expert, like they know more than me, right?

Gary Guymon: 00:07:10

They're really just trying to help me achieve a goal that I

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want to accomplish. Right? Yeah. I've always found too, that

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coming from a sales rep, trying to be technical, trying to

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engulf yourself into a customer's world is almost a

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disservice. Right? It comes off kind of shady, almost in that

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you're trying to act as you're involved in their world. Whereas

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if you have a technical person, like a sales engineer speaking

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to what they do, it's almost trusted more. So I mean, it's

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kind of taking a step back, swallowing it a little bit of

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pride and just allowing things to organically move forward, as

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opposed to trying to overstep and speak about something you

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don't necessarily know about. Yeah, like you literally, you

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have to stay in your lane. And so you came from a very

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different world accounting than retail, and you stepped into

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this telecom world, and somebody saw something in you. And they

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said, Oh, yeah, you're pretty good at this, we want you to. So

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how did that marathon eight hour interview to walk me through

Gary Guymon: 00:08:13

that process? What was that like?

Wesleyne Greer: 00:08:15

Well, it was kind of intimidating at first.

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So they put me up at a hotel across the street from the

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office. And I walked in kind of expecting to just be greeted,

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you know, by reception, or be sat down and then just go into a

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room like a traditional interview. And I walked in, and

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I was greeted, and they took me around on a tour through a data

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center, which I was not expecting at all. But extranet

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owns and operates a 10,000 square foot data center. And

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I've been to a few I've been to New York, I went to one 11/8,

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which is now owned and operated by Google, and the security

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level at our data center was a lot higher than anything I've

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experienced. So that initial aspect of it was pretty

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intimidating. And then just coming in, I went into the CEOs

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office and he sat me down he had a couch in his in his office and

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that was kind of where the interview started. And it threw

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me off a little bit just the comfortability, this the person

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ability in the interview, but he's extremely friendly,

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extremely likeable, kind of ease any sort of stresses from the

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get go. And we just started chatting he was he was first

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trying to pick my brain trying to see how much I understood

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about the industry, how much I understood about his business

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versus what NTT offered, I mean, coming from a fortune 100

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company to a company that's not even publicly traded. It's a

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huge change in environment, not only in, in status of the

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company, but also in the customer base that you're

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targeting. So he was trying to grasp whether or not I would be

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able to make that adjustment and if I'd be successful at his

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company, so once he was able to determine that he brought in the

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CTO who picked my brain on a more technical level, we start

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We're talking more about the ins and outs of what IP transit

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actually was versus peering relationships, which is just a

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different component of the internet. And we talked back and

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forth on how we could grow the company with our goals kind of

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aligned, and it would be a good fit. And then he just took me

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out to dinner where we kind of just continued conversations,

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and at the end of the day, he ended up extending an offer. So

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it's almost like they, yes, they were interviewing you. And

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they're kind of trying to sell you too, right? And especially

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in today's job market, where we are I mean, this is an

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employee's market, right? I don't even know if that's a

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coined term, but it is this is an employee's market. So as

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leaders, when we think about, okay, how can I provide a

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different experience for a candidate that I know I want?

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And so maybe it's not like, Hey, you come into a hotel, and you

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spend the whole day with us, but really getting to meet with

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upper leadership and understanding from upper

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leadership? These are our goals, this is our mission, these are

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our values. Would you say that those things are we have reasons

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why you decided, hey, I'm gonna move on back to California, I'm

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gonna take a different step. Oh, yeah, for sure. I think that

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just how much we kind of hit it off from an environment

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standpoint, and just how welcoming how friendly

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everything was, how easygoing the environment was, was very

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appealing to me at the time, it still is, it's still something

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that I value more than anything. And also going through a

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pandemic at a company, you're always worried on how they're

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going to handle things. And it's translated, you know, through

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the years to where my upper management has allowed me to

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work from home. Just been super accommodating to every concern

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that we've ever had. And just, it's really something that they

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sold and lived up to while being there at the company. So I was

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the next question, I was going to ask you the difference

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between that large, publicly traded company and your company,

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because again, a lot of people are in that transition point in

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their career where they're looking for something different,

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something new, what would you say the pros and cons of both

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sides are?

Gary Guymon: 00:12:16

Well, I think the pros of being at a smaller

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company is probably there's a lot more more freedom to what

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you're able to do. And I say that because you can build case

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studies, you can build how you pitch things, whereas when

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you're at a fortune 100 company, it's more scripted, they have an

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idea of how you want to pitch things, how they want you to

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operate, how you have to manage certain customers, or whatever

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it may be. And that responsibility, I think that

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that can be deterring unless it fits your sales style to have

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everything sort of planned out for you. For me, that is kind of

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deterring, I like to kind of fit my sales style to the customer,

Gary Guymon: 00:12:57

as opposed to just having something kind of planned out

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and how you approach every single person. I think it's

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very, very subjective. And I think that's kind of lost that

Gary Guymon: 00:13:06

at a larger company, you don't you don't have the freedom to be

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able to talk to people that way. I think a con is always you're

Gary Guymon: 00:13:12

worried about stability? Are you worried about being bought by

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another company? Like if there's a merger, if there's an

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acquisition, how is that going to change my life? Am I still

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going to be employed am I going to be out of a job, you know,

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and all of those things go on behind the scenes, and you may

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or may not be privy to it, depending on your status at the

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company. And depending on how transparent leadership is with

Gary Guymon: 00:13:33

you. I think that's probably one of the more bigger concerns I

Gary Guymon: 00:13:36

had. Initially. It's not something that I share now. But

Gary Guymon: 00:13:41

the biggest thing is just finding the right fit for you

Gary Guymon: 00:13:43

and what you want in your career path. Yeah, I was speaking with

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someone who is looking for new people within the organization.

Gary Guymon: 00:13:54

And when I was talking about to them, I'm like, Hey, you have to

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remember you're a large enterprise. If you find somebody

Gary Guymon: 00:13:59

who's come from like a startup realm or a smaller company,

Gary Guymon: 00:14:02

they're used to doing things, marching off their own beat,

Gary Guymon: 00:14:05

that doesn't happen here. There's a lot of red tape.

Gary Guymon: 00:14:08

There's a lot of stuff that a salesperson has to go through in

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order to get something done. So you really want to think about

Gary Guymon: 00:14:16

the culture fit is not just what you can do, but that culture fit

Gary Guymon: 00:14:19

is going to help you get employees and keep them much,

Gary Guymon: 00:14:22

much longer. Right. Yeah, no culture is a huge part of it. I

Gary Guymon: 00:14:26

mean, even at NTT, there's a lot of things like you had to

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dissect each opportunity. You had to dissect calls. They were

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part of a Miller Heiman process, if you're familiar with that,

Gary Guymon: 00:14:37

where you fill out green sheets for calls and you have to

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outline what the reason is for having the call. He had blue

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sheets for opportunities and it's just all of that is

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extremely valuable if you use it correctly, but can be extremely

Gary Guymon: 00:14:50

tedious if you're applying it to just like say like an

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introductory call, which you're required to do, right. But yeah,

Gary Guymon: 00:14:56

here at extranet that's not part of my process. There are Some

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elements that I've taken from that and still use, but I don't

Gary Guymon: 00:15:03

think all of it is applicable or necessary in every single

Gary Guymon: 00:15:06

opportunity. Well, yeah, one of the great things about sales

Gary Guymon: 00:15:09

leadership is you're like, I really like this, but I really

Gary Guymon: 00:15:12

don't like that. So I'm not gonna ever do that, again, I'm

Gary Guymon: 00:15:15

not gonna make my team do that, because it's just so annoying.

Gary Guymon: 00:15:21

So tell me about your ascent from individual contributor to

Gary Guymon: 00:15:26

leader? Because it seems like it happened pretty quickly with you

Gary Guymon: 00:15:30

moving to extranet. Yeah, so just starting out, I started out

Gary Guymon: 00:15:34

pretty successful at the company, not nearly as

Gary Guymon: 00:15:37

successful as I was hoping to be, but to say the least, they

Gary Guymon: 00:15:41

were happy with my performance. And I kind of put together a

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proposal to create a position which was VP of sales,

Gary Guymon: 00:15:50

everything kind of operated independently, whether that was

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channel whether that was just outside sales, or inside sales.

Gary Guymon: 00:15:57

And I wanted to kind of put everything under one umbrella

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and expand and start hiring people. So I put together a

Gary Guymon: 00:16:04

proposal, I pitched my boss, and he was all for it, he was

Gary Guymon: 00:16:08

actually thinking of doing something similar to what my

Gary Guymon: 00:16:11

proposal was about. But he said he loved the idea. And let's

Gary Guymon: 00:16:14

just run with it and see where it goes. Hmm, being your own

Gary Guymon: 00:16:19

advocate. So often, employees, people just sit back and they

Gary Guymon: 00:16:25

wait for the company to say, Okay, there's a new position

Gary Guymon: 00:16:28

we've created. But if you never speak up and use your words, and

Gary Guymon: 00:16:32

say, This is the vision I have for the organization, then how

Gary Guymon: 00:16:36

will you ever be thought of as a leader, if you're not thinking

Gary Guymon: 00:16:41

about leadership initiatives? So you said, this is the plan I

Gary Guymon: 00:16:45

have? This is what I want to do. And your boss said, Go do it. So

Gary Guymon: 00:16:49

how did you start building this organization? Starting with,

Gary Guymon: 00:16:53

okay, it's me, but I want all of these people. Can you say that

Gary Guymon: 00:16:57

again? So how did you go about taking the plan that you gave to

Gary Guymon: 00:17:02

your leader to say I want to make the sales organization and

Gary Guymon: 00:17:06

what were some of the first things that you did to start

Gary Guymon: 00:17:08

building out the sales team.

Gary Guymon: 00:17:10

So I put together a plan to hire employees, I put together a

Gary Guymon: 00:17:15

bunch of ROIs on when he can see his return on investment. And

Gary Guymon: 00:17:19

then I also I put together a bunch of training materials, a

Gary Guymon: 00:17:24

company story, started putting together marketing plans that I

Gary Guymon: 00:17:29

was, I was hoping to accomplish to give all sales reps sort of a

Gary Guymon: 00:17:34

head start in obtaining the goals that I had set out for

Gary Guymon: 00:17:38

them. So I built a company story, I built a training deck

Gary Guymon: 00:17:42

going over every single service that we offer, and just sort of

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presented this all to him to where I was able to implement it

Gary Guymon: 00:17:50

just from the start. And just any person that we on boarded

Gary Guymon: 00:17:55

was able to go through these training materials and just have

Gary Guymon: 00:17:57

a whole process put in front of them to hit the ground running

Gary Guymon: 00:18:01

and be successful from day one. Wow. So you really focused on I

Gary Guymon: 00:18:06

want to build a house before the people actually come right. You

Gary Guymon: 00:18:12

wanted to give them the infrastructure. And I think that

Gary Guymon: 00:18:15

that's something that so many organizations miss. It's like,

Gary Guymon: 00:18:19

oh, no, no, we'll hire all the people. And then we'll figure

Gary Guymon: 00:18:22

out what they do when they get here. Right? No, I think that's,

Gary Guymon: 00:18:26

I mean, it works for some people, right. So I mean, even

Gary Guymon: 00:18:28

when I came on board, extranet it wasn't, there wasn't a plan

Gary Guymon: 00:18:31

in place. And it was sort of like, here's your desk, get to

Gary Guymon: 00:18:35

work kind of ordeal. And I was fortunate to already have a

Gary Guymon: 00:18:39

relationship with the CTO, so any questions that I had, or any

Gary Guymon: 00:18:42

anything that I felt that I need training on, he was very

Gary Guymon: 00:18:45

communicative, and in gave me that opportunity. Whereas I

Gary Guymon: 00:18:49

don't I don't think, had it been a different situation where I

Gary Guymon: 00:18:53

didn't know him as well as I did. I could have been as

Gary Guymon: 00:18:55

successful as I was to start. So I wanted to make sure anybody we

Gary Guymon: 00:18:58

onboard, it had that opportunity to just start and just be

Gary Guymon: 00:19:02

confident in what they were pitching and be successful. So

Gary Guymon: 00:19:06

as you've gone through this journey of building this team

Gary Guymon: 00:19:09

from scratch and building all their playbooks and collaterals

Gary Guymon: 00:19:13

what are some of the challenges that you had to overcome? Um, I

Gary Guymon: 00:19:18

think it's a it's just kind of learning how to work with

Gary Guymon: 00:19:21

people, because everybody's different, you know, you can't

Gary Guymon: 00:19:25

treat everybody the same. Some people like, like tough

Gary Guymon: 00:19:29

encouraged me, they like to be called out on what they what

Gary Guymon: 00:19:32

they're doing wrong. Some people like to stop positive

Gary Guymon: 00:19:35

reinforcement. I think that that has been my my biggest struggle

Gary Guymon: 00:19:40

is trying to learn how to speak to everybody. Because if you

Gary Guymon: 00:19:43

treat everybody the same, then you're going to fail and people

Gary Guymon: 00:19:46

you're going to have a lot of churn in your organization. So

Gary Guymon: 00:19:49

trying to understand that in training, I think focusing on on

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where people are not understanding everything and

Gary Guymon: 00:19:57

focus more heavily on that has been been a little difficult,

Gary Guymon: 00:20:01

and then just being able to provide assistance while while

Gary Guymon: 00:20:03

doing my own job as well. So I like to accompany sales reps on

Gary Guymon: 00:20:08

phone calls whenever they need support, and also just continue

Gary Guymon: 00:20:12

doing my job. So balancing everything, it's been a bit of a

Gary Guymon: 00:20:15

struggle, but making it work. Yeah, and one of the things that

Gary Guymon: 00:20:20

I really love to say is that every salesperson is an

Gary Guymon: 00:20:24

individual. And because they're all individuals, every single

Gary Guymon: 00:20:28

person on the team needs to have their customized coaching plan.

Gary Guymon: 00:20:32

So you as a leader know how to best show up and serve them to

Gary Guymon: 00:20:36

help them achieve their goals. And it seems like very early on,

Gary Guymon: 00:20:40

you realize that and you adjusted your style for each

Gary Guymon: 00:20:43

person on the team. Yeah, no, I like to, I like to ask people

Gary Guymon: 00:20:48

what it is that they're really trying to accomplish in life,

Gary Guymon: 00:20:51

not in the company. And like, for one example, I had a rep who

Gary Guymon: 00:20:54

wanted to buy a home in a year. So I broke everything down,

Gary Guymon: 00:20:58

asked him how much the home would cost, how much money he

Gary Guymon: 00:21:00

wanted to put down and just kind of laid it out. And I said,

Gary Guymon: 00:21:04

Okay, well, here's your goal for the month, I'm like, Don't worry

Gary Guymon: 00:21:07

about your quota, because your quota is less than what you need

Gary Guymon: 00:21:10

to hit to be able to accomplish this in a year. And I said, so

Gary Guymon: 00:21:13

this is what you want to accomplish, then go ahead, let's

Gary Guymon: 00:21:16

work towards it, let's find a way to make it happen. And

Gary Guymon: 00:21:19

people are more receptive to achieving something that means

Gary Guymon: 00:21:23

something to them than being motivated by fear. If you don't

Gary Guymon: 00:21:26

hit your quota, you're going to be fired kind of motivation is

Gary Guymon: 00:21:30

it works, but I don't think it's the best way to approach

Gary Guymon: 00:21:33

managing people. So like I said, with this particular instance,

Gary Guymon: 00:21:37

he had a goal in mind to buy a home, which would have put them

Gary Guymon: 00:21:40

at 150% of quota anyway, so why not make that his goal? That's

Gary Guymon: 00:21:46

powerful. That is powerful. You have had such a diverse career,

Gary Guymon: 00:21:51

from accounting to retail sales, to really creating your own

Gary Guymon: 00:21:56

team, what is the thing that you are most excited about having

Gary Guymon: 00:22:00

accomplished either personally or professionally in your life?

Gary Guymon: 00:22:04

That's a tough question. I'd say probably personally, just being

Gary Guymon: 00:22:08

a father. So I have two kids, I like to think that I'm teaching

Gary Guymon: 00:22:11

them the things that I wish that I had when I was a child and

Gary Guymon: 00:22:15

helping them grow into a responsible and just healthy

Gary Guymon: 00:22:20

person. So I think right now my one year old, it's a little

Gary Guymon: 00:22:23

tough to tell, but my five year old, she displays quite a bit of

Gary Guymon: 00:22:27

those characteristics that I was hoping would would come out in

Gary Guymon: 00:22:30

her. So she's, he's very ambitious. She loves to learn,

Gary Guymon: 00:22:33

she's athletic, she just yelled at me the other day, it was our

Gary Guymon: 00:22:36

day off from exercising. And she said, even though it's your day

Gary Guymon: 00:22:39

off, you need to be active. And so it's just those little things

Gary Guymon: 00:22:43

that stick out to you. Or I talked to my kids quite a bit

Gary Guymon: 00:22:47

about what's going on in my life. And there was a deal that

Gary Guymon: 00:22:50

I was losing. And my daughter just tapped me on the shoulder

Gary Guymon: 00:22:53

and said, It's just money, daddy, wow, you just You gotta

Gary Guymon: 00:22:57

listen to them. Yeah. And understand what's important and

Gary Guymon: 00:23:01

try not to let things impact you the way that they may initially

Gary Guymon: 00:23:05

and just sort of take a step back and I'd say that's probably

Gary Guymon: 00:23:08

my most proud I love it. Love it. Love it. Your children your

Gary Guymon: 00:23:13

legacy. That is the thing that you are most proud of. That's

Gary Guymon: 00:23:16

amazing. My son gives me those little bits and pieces to I'll

Gary Guymon: 00:23:21

get I'll hold calling him like so mommy, what's this about?

Gary Guymon: 00:23:24

What's that about? So I love I love I love the little people.

Gary Guymon: 00:23:29

Gary, this conversation has been amazing. If people want to get

Gary Guymon: 00:23:33

in contact with you what is the one best way either LinkedIn or

Gary Guymon: 00:23:38

email is the easiest and best way to get in touch with me.

Gary Guymon: 00:23:42

Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing your time and

Gary Guymon: 00:23:47

your experience with us on the transform sales podcast. We have

Gary Guymon: 00:23:52

definitely been enriched by learning from you today. Yeah,

Gary Guymon: 00:23:56

thanks for having me. And that was another episode of the

Gary Guymon: 00:23:59

transformed sales podcast. Remember in everything that you

Gary Guymon: 00:24:04

do, focus on the transformation within your sales organization.