How You Can Strike Gold in Sales Easy with Jon Ferrara

Wesleyne Greer: 00:00:00

As a sales manager, you are judged by the

Wesleyne Greer: 00:00:03

performance of your team, and you're praised when they do

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well. But one thing that you've not been able to figure out is

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how to get everyone on your team consistently hitting quota every

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single month. On the Snack size sales podcast, we discuss the

Wesleyne Greer: 00:00:22

science of selling stem sales leadership in the science,

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technology, engineering and manufacturing fields is

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difficult. You will learn from sales managers just like you

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that will give you actionable insights and tips on how to

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develop as a leader and achieve your revenue targets every

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single month. So pop your headphones in and get ready to

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listen to my guests today. They will give you information and

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inspiration to ensure that you have actionable insights that

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you can put into place today. Hello, and welcome to another

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episode of the science of selling stem today. I am so

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:05

excited. I have John Ferrara, the CEO of nimble, how are you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:10

done?

Jon Ferrara: 00:01:11

I'm good Wesleyan. I'm super excited to be here

Jon Ferrara: 00:01:14

today with you and more importantly, your audience

Jon Ferrara: 00:01:17

because I think that we all grow by helping other people grow.

Jon Ferrara: 00:01:20

And so I hope that our conversation today leaves the

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people listening with some inspiration education that helps

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them to become better, smarter, faster tomorrow.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:30

Awesome. I'm excited to dig in with you. Let

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:34

me tell you guys a little bit more about John. He's a SAS

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:38

entrepreneur and a CRM pioneer. He's mostly known for founding

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:41

one of the first CRMs Goldmine in the 1990s in 2010. He

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:47

reimagined CRM by building nimble, the simple CRM for

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:50

office 365, and G Suite. John's core values are building

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:54

products that help others achieve their passion, plan and

Wesleyne Greer: 00:01:57

purpose and what drives his success. So you as my children

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:02

say, back in the 1900s, they like to share with you a nice to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:07

know, in the 1900s, you built a whole CRM and now you're on

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:13

another one that we want to know how did you start your career?

Wesleyne Greer: 00:02:16

And how did you get to where you are today?

Jon Ferrara: 00:02:18

Well, I think I started my career on the

Jon Ferrara: 00:02:20

shoulders of giants, right? I think that we all are here on

Jon Ferrara: 00:02:23

this planet because of the work that other people did. And it

Jon Ferrara: 00:02:27

was really a blend of my father who was one of the top Lincoln

Jon Ferrara: 00:02:32

Mercury guys in the country in the 50s. And Subaru dealer, one

Jon Ferrara: 00:02:36

of the first ones in California in the 70s. And my uncle John,

Jon Ferrara: 00:02:39

who invented radar and microwave at MIT in the 40s these people

Jon Ferrara: 00:02:43

inspired me to take chances with life to never say shoulda,

Jon Ferrara: 00:02:47

coulda, woulda, and also, I'll attribute the space program

Jon Ferrara: 00:02:49

based out of Texas, the space program really inspired me to

Jon Ferrara: 00:02:55

look towards science as a way to achieve my dreams. And so when I

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:00

when I graduated from high school, I bought my first

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:02

computer in 1978, very few people in my town had a computer

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:06

in those days, I worked my way through combined computer

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:08

science degree at a computer game store. And it was there, I

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:11

saw the adoption of micro computers by businesses at

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:14

scale, and learned about their needs, because I then graduated

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:20

from my degree and went to work in business. And it was there

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:24

working in business that I saw the adoption of PCs and the need

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:27

for software to drive the productivity of those solutions.

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:31

And more importantly, it was at a company in Texas in Dallas

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:35

that I was working at in sales. And they basically there was no

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:39

CRM, there was no contact management outlook and

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:41

Salesforce didn't exist. And it was the days of DOS Disk

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:45

Operating System. So PCs didn't even have a program that

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:48

integrated email contacts and calendar and sales and marketing

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:50

automation. And as a salesperson working as part of a field team.

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:54

I needed something to not only manage my contacts, but to

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:57

collaborate with my team about the contacts that we were

Jon Ferrara: 00:03:59

simultaneously engaging with. And all I had to arm myself was

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:04

scraps of paper that I made notes on my day timer that I put

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:08

my appointments and my contacts on and a spreadsheet that I put

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:11

my forecast on, and I said there's got to be a better way I

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:14

couldn't find it. So I quit my job but I started goldmine.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:04:17

Wow. So how did you find yourself as a computer

Wesleyne Greer: 00:04:22

science major in sales?

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:25

Well, you know, the funny thing is Westland is that

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:28

I never wanted to be my dad and my dad was the consummate

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:31

entrepreneur salesperson. I wanted to be an astronaut. I

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:35

wanted to be more my my uncle who was a pioneer in electrical

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:38

engineering with radar microwaving satellite

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:41

communication. So I bought a computer and I studied computer

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:44

science, but you know, you can't avoid your heritage you you

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:49

become your father or your mother without a choice. And so

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:53

I found that I had to pay for my school and I got this job in a

Jon Ferrara: 00:04:57

computer store and I found out that I was really good at sail.

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:00

But the way I ended up as a computer science major in sales

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:05

is I spent two years at an aerospace company, Hughes

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:08

Aircraft and did systems work, I spent a year at a startup out of

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:13

Boston and did systems engineering, pre and post sales

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:16

work in order to support the salesperson. But I saw that

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:21

really, the opportunity for growth wasn't in the pre or post

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:24

sales role who was in sales, because those are the people

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:28

that are on the point of the customer in action, and the ones

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:32

that get rewarded most. So I had to try my hand at it. And as I

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:36

tried to do sales, I struggled because we're still working in

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:40

the the dark ages of sales automation, which is paper. And

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:45

I knew there had to be a better way to not just arm myself, but

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:48

my team around me. And what I wanted was a tool that

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:51

integrated the contact hours connecting with the

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:53

conversations I was having the activities are his driving and

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:56

of those activities that are driving the pipeline that I'm

Jon Ferrara: 00:05:59

managing. But I wanted to be able to do that not just for

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:02

myself, but my entire team in my district office, but to

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:06

collaborate with the corporate people, because it's not the

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:08

salespeople that touch the customer. It's everybody in the

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:11

whole journey pre and post cycle, including product

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:14

marketing, management, shipping accounting. And so I saw the

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:18

need for not just contact management for a team or CRM for

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:22

a team, but a blend of contact management and sales or

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:25

marketing automation for the whole company. And that's what

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:28

really caused me to go out and pioneer outlook and Salesforce

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:32

before i There existed with goldmine.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:06:34

Wow. And, you know, I think the crazy thing

Wesleyne Greer: 00:06:37

is, it's like you said that that was back in the 80s 90s. When

Wesleyne Greer: 00:06:40

you had that realization,

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:42

it was 1989 when I had that realization,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:06:45

and it's crazy that companies still don't have

Wesleyne Greer: 00:06:48

it figured out today. I mean, 2022, and they still aren't like

Wesleyne Greer: 00:06:53

using paper and doing crazy things. Hallelujah. And

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:56

amen. I'm and I'm going to tell you the history of

Jon Ferrara: 00:06:59

contact management, because contact management is the root

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:02

of SFA, Salesforce, automation and CRM. And it's one of the

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:07

reasons why CRM today is broken as his contact management. So

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:11

let me give you some history and bring us to the present of what

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:15

the problem is. So historically, contact management was a

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:18

Rolodex, it was that thing that you put the business cards in,

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:21

but it didn't enable you to automate that process, because

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:25

it was just a Rolodex of cards. And so somebody smart figured

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:29

out how to build a recall date system with six by nine cards

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:33

and a little metal box. And what you did is you put the name of

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:36

the person, you're outreaching, to the note on the call and the

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:40

recall date of when you said you got to follow up with them. And

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:42

typically in a call, you say, I'm gonna follow up with you in

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:46

two weeks, right? Now, if you don't do what you say in

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:49

business, that's the basics, you don't win games. And so the

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:53

recall date, six by nine index card system was really the root

Jon Ferrara: 00:07:57

of foundation of the idea of goldmine. But more importantly,

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:02

the blending of that recall date system, which is just like your

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:04

pipeline of people, you're calling on to your Rolodex,

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:07

which is your entire network. And imagine you wanted to be

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:10

able to do that for a whole team. And that was the idea of

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:13

Goldmine back in the day, and Outlook didn't exist. So in

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:16

those days, outlook was a Outlook Express, which was an

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:19

inbox it didn't have contacts or email connected. And the funny

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:22

thing about Microsoft is they don't innovate, they iterate,

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:25

they wait for somebody else to build a market, and then come on

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:27

when it's big enough to build something good enough to

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:30

dominate the market, and then use their muscle to dominate,

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:32

which is billions of users and hundreds of 1000s of bars. And

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:35

by the time Microsoft introduced outlook, which was a copy of

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:39

Goldmine, we had already had two to 5 million customers around

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:43

the world using our product. And so Goldmine was not just the

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:47

first CRM, it was the first contact manager for teams. And

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:50

the idea behind that is everybody in the company is

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:53

touching the customer simultaneously pre and post

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:55

sales cycle. And it's not just prospects and customers that you

Jon Ferrara: 00:08:58

need to connect with to grow your business. At nimble. We

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:01

connect to editors, analysts, bloggers, influencers, third

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:04

party developers, investors, advisors, so there's a

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:06

constituency that you need to connect with outside your

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:09

business. And there's a whole team of people within your

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:12

company. And so Goldmine was the contact manager for whole

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:15

companies back in the day when none existed. And when outlook

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:19

introduced contact management Goldmine by that time has

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:22

shifted up into SFA. And CRM SFA is essentially the rifle on the

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:27

map the tools of soldiers, their salespeople need to win wars

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:31

boots on the ground. And then if you think about the CRM, it's

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:35

more of the engine for reporting on the activities of the

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:38

salespeople and the managing of the leaves that you turn into

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:41

customers. And so CRM is really for management. SFAs for

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:45

salespeople. And contact management is for the whole team

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:48

to manage the relationships. And so what happened was outlook

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:52

became the team contact platform. So serums forgot about

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:55

contact management, and they became more SFA and really more

Jon Ferrara: 00:09:59

CRM big Gotta serums don't give you the SFA tools you need like

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:02

the outreach, email template tracking software, the sales

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:06

intelligence. So when you buy a CRM today, you got to buy

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:09

outreach, IO SalesLoft, and LinkedIn Sales Navigator or

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:13

zoominfo, all the above, and then trying to integrate that to

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:16

your CRM and then trying to teach salespeople use it, and

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:19

they don't talk to each other well, and so that's why today,

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:22

contact management is broken. Because today, if you want to do

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:26

contact management for a team, your choice is Google Cloud

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:30

works or workplace, whatever they call it. Now, they keep

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:33

changing the name. It's basically Gmail, and Microsoft

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:37

365. And so if you're a business, you have to choose

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:40

your business operating system, which is email contact calendar.

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:43

And the problem is, is that Microsoft and Google contact,

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:46

don't do good contact management for the team, because every team

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:49

member in your company has separate contact database, and

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:52

the contacts aren't linked to the email calendar, let alone

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:54

the social and so your sales reps don't live in your CRM,

Jon Ferrara: 00:10:58

they live inside of email, and now more and more LinkedIn. And

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:02

so the reason serums fail is lack of use of bad data. And

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:06

that's why they call it Salesforce because that got

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:08

forced salespeople to use it back.

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:15

I love that. The day Goldmine was not just the whole team's

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:19

contact that form but the SFA, the salesperson needed and the

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:22

reporting CRM features that management needed. And today

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:26

that all that's broken, because Google and Microsoft don't

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:29

provide good team contact management and stick around

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:31

don't provide contact management or as of a and so what happens

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:35

is companies buy Salesforce or whatever. And then they buy

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:40

sales off outreach, LinkedIn Sales, navigator zoominfo, but

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:44

then their team doesn't have a good contact platform. So what

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:47

happens is the team uses spreadsheets for relationship

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:50

management. So in closing, there's 225 million global

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:54

businesses less than 1% use any CRM, most people CRM or contact

Jon Ferrara: 00:11:58

platform is spreadsheets, post it notes, and email. And that's

Jon Ferrara: 00:12:02

what nimble fixes.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:03

Wow, that was a deep dive into the the

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:08

challenges with the CRM, you know, from my mind side, what I

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:13

see is the low adaptability rate of sales people using the CRM,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:19

and then sales managers just using it as a punishment tool to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:12:23

beat them over the head, right, just beating

Jon Ferrara: 00:12:26

reports of the CRM until the sales reps not

Jon Ferrara: 00:12:30

performing. And then they go on beat them with the CRM. And so

Jon Ferrara: 00:12:35

the problem is, is serums don't work for the salespeople, they

Jon Ferrara: 00:12:39

work for it and they have to go to get to use it. Imagine if the

Jon Ferrara: 00:12:42

serum worked for you by building itself automatically from the

Jon Ferrara: 00:12:46

contacts, email, calendar and external social data that you

Jon Ferrara: 00:12:51

have. And basically unified the contacts for your entire company

Jon Ferrara: 00:12:55

and team, enrich it with people and company data. So you don't

Jon Ferrara: 00:12:57

have to google them, you nimble them. And this is the history of

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:00

interactions. And then we're lived where you work. We live in

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:04

our inbox, we live inside of social we live on business

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:08

webpages where we're researching people. And imagine if you had a

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:11

serum that was sitting there like a little nudge that would

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:14

basically say, Oh, this is Wesleyne Greer, this is where

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:17

she's from. This is what her business is about this winter

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:19

podcasts about this the history and actions that our team has

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:22

had and enabled me to get the context and insights I need to

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:26

engage. But then more importantly, the ability to log

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:28

the note and schedule the next task wherever I happen to be

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:32

engaging, that would enable salespeople to adopt it more and

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:36

that's why I got back in this business. 10 years ago, I

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:39

started using social saw is going to change the way we work

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:42

play, buy and sell I look for relationship manager that was

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:45

connected to social couldn't find it oh look to conduct

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:48

management CRM saw they're broken. So I said, You know what

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:52

my kids are now all in school, I got time on my hand. I'm gonna

Jon Ferrara: 00:13:55

get back up on that saddle. And I'm gonna ride into the breach

Jon Ferrara: 00:14:00

again.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:02

And, you know, I think that you made a lot of

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:05

good points, right? The biggest challenge with adopting all I

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:09

mean, the sales SAS tech stack every single day. I mean, it

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:13

gets bigger and bigger and bigger. I mean, there's so much

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:16

stuff out there. And one key thing that we have to understand

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:19

is that our salespeople, our sales managers, they need easy,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:23

right? It's like, I have this quota, I have to hit these KPI I

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:27

have so many things I have to do. I can't log into 10

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:30

different systems, I can't do all these things. So one thing

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:32

is make the system soft. Okay, if the systems don't talk,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:36

what's the better thing it's to actually have a system that does

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:39

these things for you. And as somebody who's a sales

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:42

consultant, and sales trainer, I tried a whole bunch of different

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:44

CRMs. And so I remember using nimble one of the things that I

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:48

really liked was as soon as I signed in, I was like, oh, every

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:51

single person I've ever emailed ever in Outlook is just in there

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:55

automatically, right? And so I think that when we think about

Wesleyne Greer: 00:14:59

okay, I gotta Get my salespeople using something right. And you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:03

mentioned the the big bad wolf. It's called Salesforce because

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:06

you have to force the people, the salespeople to use it talk

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:09

to me about, you know, when you see, hey, I made this to really

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:15

think about how sales people are using a system and to help

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:19

enable them, what types of things do we need to do, whether

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:23

it's through software or through our actions to enable our

Wesleyne Greer: 00:15:26

salespeople? Well, let's just

Jon Ferrara: 00:15:28

talk about the job of a salesperson. You know, in

Jon Ferrara: 00:15:33

the old days, the salespeople would build their brand on the

Jon Ferrara: 00:15:37

promises they make and the experience they deliver. And

Jon Ferrara: 00:15:39

people would basically recommend their friends after they bought

Jon Ferrara: 00:15:42

for them, because they provided such a great experience, they

Jon Ferrara: 00:15:45

would not come back and buy again, but they drag their

Jon Ferrara: 00:15:47

friends with them. Today, what we've got is we've got these

Jon Ferrara: 00:15:49

SDRs that are being fed these eyeballs generated by AdWords.

Jon Ferrara: 00:15:54

And they're basically putting them on these automation tools

Jon Ferrara: 00:15:58

to spam them with a bunch of automated emails to try to get

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:01

them into a phone call conversation. And you've seen

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:03

this right?

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:03

Yes, it is, automation is killing the

Wesleyne Greer: 00:16:07

profession of sales, it is killing us.

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:09

But if you're a sales person, in fact, a

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:11

business professional, because everybody's in sales, listen to

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:14

me today, if you want to get your prospects and customers and

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:18

ideally their influencers, to pick up the phone and call you

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:21

when they need their products and services, and to drag them

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:23

friends with them, then you need to become their trusted advisor,

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:26

which means you've got to stop talking about yourself, stop

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:29

talking about your products, nobody cares. People don't buy

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:32

great products, they buy better versions of themselves. So what

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:35

you want to sell is people that have risen themselves by

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:38

becoming their trusted advisor by giving you knowledge away,

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:41

because you've forgotten more about your products and services

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:44

and your customers will ever know in their lives. And imagine

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:47

if you rather than talking about how great you are your products

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:49

are you talk to your customers about how they can be great by

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:52

sharing content that is inspirational, educational, and

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:55

around the areas of promise your products and services. So how to

Jon Ferrara: 00:16:58

be better, smarter, faster, whatever you sell, even if it's

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:01

talking about the industry itself, or even competitors,

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:04

what you do is you're inspiring educating people on a daily

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:07

basis, you need to do that in the places where your

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:09

constituency has conversations about how to be better, smarter,

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:13

faster. And they do that in places like Twitter, and

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:15

LinkedIn, and Instagram and blogs and LinkedIn groups in a

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:19

lot of different places. So you want to build an identity that

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:22

has a really great avatar where people can see your eyes in your

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:25

face, because that's the heart to your soul. And you want to

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:28

build an identity in these places, and then regularly share

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:31

content. And if you can't write content, and I'm not a writer,

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:35

I'm a math computer science major. I curate content from

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:38

people that inspire me in and around the years are my products

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:41

and services promised and when I curate it, I attribute their

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:44

name and a hashtag to category. And so category might be lb

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:48

social sales or marketing. And then I share that on my

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:51

identities and with different identities. I share different

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:54

amounts on Twitter, you know, maybe five to eight times a day,

Jon Ferrara: 00:17:58

LinkedIn a few times a day. And then I listen and engage not

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:02

with the intent to sell people stuff, but to serve them. And so

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:06

what I try to do is I try to when people connect with me,

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:10

I'll nimble them because nimble lives in my browser, and I can

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:12

hover on it on a Twitter message or LinkedIn message or business

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:16

article or an email and I'll build the record or bring up the

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:19

record if it doesn't exist. And then I will look at their

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:22

background, who are they? What are they about and find ways

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:26

that I might be able to add value and communicate back to

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:28

them in a relevant authentic way? We're I'm blowing wind in

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:32

their sails and just making a connection on how many times is

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:35

people connected with you, and you immediately get this

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:38

message? Hey, Wesleyan, have you thought about using this service

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:43

or doing this thing right now don't sell people don't connect

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:46

and sell, connect and serve service is the new sale. So if

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:50

you build an identity in the places where your constituency

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:53

haven't conversations, you share content to inspire and educate

Jon Ferrara: 00:18:56

them, you listen, engage with the intent to serve, then your

Jon Ferrara: 00:19:00

brand will grow as a trusted adviser when people need you.

Jon Ferrara: 00:19:04

They'll call you and they'll drag their friends with them.

Jon Ferrara: 00:19:06

And I have a recipe for that. It's called the Five E's of

Jon Ferrara: 00:19:09

social business, educate intent, engage, embrace and empower. You

Jon Ferrara: 00:19:14

educate with enchanting content, you engage with the intent to

Jon Ferrara: 00:19:19

grow people, and you embrace people in a way that you're

Jon Ferrara: 00:19:23

adding value to them and growing them. And I think that's why

Jon Ferrara: 00:19:27

we're on this planet. We're on this planet to grow and the best

Jon Ferrara: 00:19:29

way to grow is helping other people grow. Hmm,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:32

that's good serve before selling. It's

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:34

something that I often say and I like how you use nimble as a

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:39

verb, you nimble them, right? So really understanding who that

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:43

person is because again, the best salespeople are doing

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:47

background research on you and they understand who you are.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:49

They understand you as a buyer and the things that matter to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:52

you. And then instead of just saying, Hey, my name is Wesleyne

Wesleyne Greer: 00:19:57

Come buy from me because I'm amazing. You say Hey, John, I

Wesleyne Greer: 00:20:00

noticed that you have a bachelor's in computer science.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:20:03

I'm a chemist, I'd love to connect, right? It's like, oh,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:20:06

okay, another person in my world

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:08

here stem. And you know, it really is basic. And I

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:11

think the greats already taught us all this stuff. The Zig

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:14

Ziglar is the Dale Carnegie's the Napoleon Hills. And when I

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:18

teach salespeople I say, when you go in somebody's office,

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:20

look at their walls, look at the books, they read the degree of

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:22

the school, they went to the knickknacks they collect. And

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:24

today, you do that digitally, of course, and you do that in order

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:28

to figure out who they are, what they're about to determine your

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:31

areas of commonality. And then you share that in order to earn

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:34

the intimacy and trust and get them to open up to you about

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:37

their business issues, which as a professional, you can either

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:40

solve or introduce them to somebody who could solve them.

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:43

And by doing that you earn trust. And when they do need you

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:48

or their friends need you guess who's going to get the call. And

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:51

so you actually get cold call by your prospects rather than you

Jon Ferrara: 00:20:56

calling them

Wesleyne Greer: 00:20:57

hmm, switch the paradigm, right? So they come to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:00

you. So I think one of the greatest honors is when somebody

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:04

sends me a message and they say, Hey, I see that you do this, can

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:08

you help me, I'm interested in what you do that shows that one,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:12

your personal branding, your branding is on point, you're

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:15

speaking, as you said to your avatar, speaking to a person,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:19

not people, not a company, a person with so many people get

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:23

wrong, you're speaking to your person, you're understanding

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:26

what their pain points are, what their problems are, and you're

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:28

actually helping them to solve them by your engaging content.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:32

So before we started recording, you told me that after you saw

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:35

Goldmine, you had a little hiatus before starting nimble.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:21:38

Tell us about that.

Jon Ferrara: 00:21:39

So I sold Goldmine when I was 40 years old. I'm 62

Jon Ferrara: 00:21:43

today, and I spent 10 years raising three babies. And I'll

Jon Ferrara: 00:21:47

tell you what waistline if you want to grow your soul, become a

Jon Ferrara: 00:21:51

present husband, father, parent, because there's no better way to

Jon Ferrara: 00:21:57

grow than to be a present father or parent, because your kids

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:02

will read, if you're present with them will reflect your

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:04

shift back at you. And if you're willing to see your shit and

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:07

work on it, that's how you grow. And I spent 10 years growing in

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:11

amazing ways. But also I was able to be present for so many

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:15

precious moments that many fathers miss, because we're all

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:19

so busy out there working. And today, both parents work, but

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:23

still the woman in many cases has to continue to take on the

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:27

role. The main role of parenting, which I found is

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:31

really difficult, because if you're present parent, your mind

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:34

goes to mush, because the chaos around you all the kids is

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:38

really taxing. And so in those 10 years, I grew incredibly, as

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:42

a human being my appreciation for the work that women do in

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:46

this world just skyrocketed, and I softened my soul in my heart,

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:51

which I think is important to do as a human being in the brief

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:54

period of time that we're on this planet. And I determine

Jon Ferrara: 00:22:57

what my purpose on this planet is, is to simply grow my soul in

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:00

the brief period of time, but I'm here. And the best way for

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:03

you to grow your soul is now helping other people grow

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:05

theirs. And the best people to do that with is that people you

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:08

love, like your close family. And so I just feel blessed, I

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:11

was able to do that for 10 years.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:23:14

So how that experience that you had spending

Wesleyne Greer: 00:23:17

time with your kids being their primary caregiver for 10 years,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:23:21

how has that translated into the way that you lead? Once you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:23:24

started this new company nimble,

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:26

I think that I definitely lead from a place of

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:29

empathy, a place of empathy for our customers, for our partners,

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:33

and more importantly, our team members. And I think that if you

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:37

lead with empathy, then you're really leading with listening,

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:41

and a desire to understand the people that you're interacting

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:45

with, and how you can serve them. And also you can make

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:48

micro adjustments to the things you do the products you're

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:51

delivering to serve them better. And I think that if you really

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:55

truly get in the trenches, with your team, with your customers,

Jon Ferrara: 00:23:59

and understand their plight, and adjust what you're doing with

Jon Ferrara: 00:24:03

each of them that individualized to that particular person or

Jon Ferrara: 00:24:08

constituency. I think that resonates with people. And I

Jon Ferrara: 00:24:11

think that's one of the reasons why the Nimble brand and maybe

Jon Ferrara: 00:24:14

even myself resonates so well with others.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:24:18

share an example of when you you've been able to

Wesleyne Greer: 00:24:21

really use your empathy to get through a difficult situation

Wesleyne Greer: 00:24:24

with a colleague or an employee. I'm really leaning into that

Wesleyne Greer: 00:24:28

because I think a lot of people don't understand like empathy

Wesleyne Greer: 00:24:31

versus sympathy how, okay, I'm an empathetic person, but in a

Wesleyne Greer: 00:24:35

real life situation, how do you actually use empathy to work

Wesleyne Greer: 00:24:39

through a difficult situation?

Jon Ferrara: 00:24:41

Well, I think that empathy really starts with

Jon Ferrara: 00:24:44

listening, really putting yourself in the other person's

Jon Ferrara: 00:24:47

shoes and understanding where they're coming from, which then

Jon Ferrara: 00:24:49

leads to solutions that you can create solutions that prevent

Jon Ferrara: 00:24:54

roadblocks and blockage from occurring. Imagine if you

Jon Ferrara: 00:24:58

weren't listening to your customer. For your team members,

Jon Ferrara: 00:25:01

or your business partners, and it got to the point where the

Jon Ferrara: 00:25:06

garden had so many weeds in it, that the other person decided to

Jon Ferrara: 00:25:10

rototill the garden rather than actually continuing to invest in

Jon Ferrara: 00:25:13

it. And so I think that relationships are a lot like

Jon Ferrara: 00:25:16

gardens that you need to get out there and attend to them and

Jon Ferrara: 00:25:18

nurture them on a regular basis. And if you do that they produce

Jon Ferrara: 00:25:21

incredible results. If you don't, then you might end up in

Jon Ferrara: 00:25:26

a divorce where you have to rototill the thing. And so I

Jon Ferrara: 00:25:29

think that leading with empathy really helps for you to better

Jon Ferrara: 00:25:34

understand the constituency around them to serve them

Jon Ferrara: 00:25:37

better, and to produce more,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:39

hmm, that's good, produce more, serve them

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:43

better. Where's that all strong leaders should really use so you

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:47

started your career as a salesperson you had a company so

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:50

that you then took a sabbatical, if you will, for a few years

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:55

before starting your new company. So how did all of those

Wesleyne Greer: 00:25:59

diverse experiences make nimble what it is today as this amazing

Wesleyne Greer: 00:26:04

CRM and place that people want to work?

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:06

Well, I think that the best products come from your

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:09

own need, because you're passionate about it, and you

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:11

understand the problem. And my first company Goldmine came from

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:14

my desire to manage my contacts and to collaborate and work as a

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:19

team, both in the district office and the corporate office,

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:22

and to take those contacts and connections that were

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:25

simultaneously building and to apply some sales and marketing

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:29

techniques to drive results from them. And so I couldn't find a

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:32

solution I built it nimble really evolved from my early

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:36

adoption and Twitter and Facebook and LinkedIn. So I

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:41

listened to this thing called This Week in tech with Leo

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:43

Laporte and he interviewed the founder of Twitter back in 2008,

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:49

or nine or so. And I listened to and I said, Twitter, really,

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:53

what's that, and I went, looked at it, and basically is a place

Jon Ferrara: 00:26:57

where you can go post words and people interact with. And so I

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:01

sign up for an account and I said, Hello, world. Hello World

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:05

is sort of something that an old like Eliza artificial

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:08

intelligence thing that is just a way to sort of tech geek talk.

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:12

Anyways, I started to use it. And imagine I was a dad for 10

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:16

years at a tech for 10 years, I didn't really have my own brand,

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:20

I was out of network. And I was really out of touch with the

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:24

acronyms and ideas of the age. But as I started to use Twitter,

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:27

I started to interact with people and start conversations

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:31

and begin to rebuild my brand. And then I had shifted that

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:34

conversation into places like LinkedIn, and Facebook. And I

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:37

started to use the social networks in order to start

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:40

conversations and build my brand in and around my passions in

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:44

life, which include many things on a personal level and

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:46

professional level. And by doing that, I saw the immense power of

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:50

communication and conversation and community. And I started to

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:54

build a bigger network and connections, I look for

Jon Ferrara: 00:27:56

something to manage those newfound connections, I found a

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:00

thing called HootSuite would enable me to manage the

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:02

conversations. But it didn't allow me to tie those

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:04

conversations to contacts, I started looking at contact

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:06

management. And in the cloud, it was only Google because

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:09

Microsoft was still on prem servers. And I saw that Google

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:12

Contacts didn't link email and calendar to the contact, let

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:15

alone have context shared by team, let alone connected to

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:18

social. And then I started looking at serum and so they

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:21

weren't even about social, let alone contact management.

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:24

Because conduct management was done an outlook and social was

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:27

done in LinkedIn. In many cases, people weren't even aware of

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:30

LinkedIn yet. So back in these days, people thought Twitter is

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:33

a place where a bunch of Propellerheads had conversations

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:36

about tech, Facebook was a place to hook up with a high school

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:39

sweetheart, and LinkedIn was blazing a job. But I saw that it

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:42

was going to change the way we work, play, buy and sell. And I

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:45

started to reimagining CRM by building a contact manager for

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:49

the whole company that had serum features in it had SFA features

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:53

in it, but integrated social and the email contact calendar of

Jon Ferrara: 00:28:57

Google and I went up to LinkedIn and met with their management

Jon Ferrara: 00:29:01

and convinced them to give me their public and private API's,

Jon Ferrara: 00:29:03

which nobody ever had or had. And I integrated deeply into

Jon Ferrara: 00:29:08

LinkedIn, into Twitter and Facebook and basically pioneered

Jon Ferrara: 00:29:11

the first social CRM and pioneered social selling back in

Jon Ferrara: 00:29:14

2010 11, before people knew that social was going to be

Jon Ferrara: 00:29:18

applicable to business and really rode that wave of the

Jon Ferrara: 00:29:22

early social pioneers. Hmm. Okay,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:29:26

so you again, you just kind of like those

Wesleyne Greer: 00:29:28

diverse experiences. You're like, Hey, I'm trying to rebuild

Wesleyne Greer: 00:29:31

my personal brand. What am I going to do? I'm going to pick

Wesleyne Greer: 00:29:33

up and I'm going to try some things and then you found a

Wesleyne Greer: 00:29:36

problem that needed to be solved. And as salespeople and

Wesleyne Greer: 00:29:39

sales leaders, I think that that's the thing that you have

Wesleyne Greer: 00:29:42

to identify what is the problem that the marketplace has to that

Wesleyne Greer: 00:29:47

needs to be solved? What is your buyer, what are their pain

Wesleyne Greer: 00:29:49

points and speak to those pains speak to those problems, the

Wesleyne Greer: 00:29:52

lack of integration, the lack of things, talking, really leaning

Wesleyne Greer: 00:29:56

into those things to help the marketplace understand what it

Wesleyne Greer: 00:29:59

is that They are doing. So as we wrap up, I'm curious, you've had

Wesleyne Greer: 00:30:04

a very, very amazing career, both professionally and

Wesleyne Greer: 00:30:08

personally, what is one thing that you're most proud of

Wesleyne Greer: 00:30:10

accomplishing?

Jon Ferrara: 00:30:11

I think the thing that I'm most proud of and most

Jon Ferrara: 00:30:13

grateful for is being a present parent and husband, I think that

Jon Ferrara: 00:30:19

we're here to grow. And the best way to grow is by helping other

Jon Ferrara: 00:30:23

people grow. Most important people to help grow are the

Jon Ferrara: 00:30:26

people that are close to you, your family. And if I have been

Jon Ferrara: 00:30:31

able to add to the world, some additional human beings that

Jon Ferrara: 00:30:36

share my philosophy, that life isn't about making money, that

Jon Ferrara: 00:30:41

it's about making memories out of moments where you're truly

Jon Ferrara: 00:30:44

present with others, and leaving this planet in a better place

Jon Ferrara: 00:30:47

than I think I've done a decent job in my life. And it's what

Jon Ferrara: 00:30:50

I'm most proud of, and grateful for.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:30:53

Awesome. That's amazing. Being a present parent,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:30:56

I tell people that you know, the quality of time you spend with

Wesleyne Greer: 00:30:59

your kids is very important. Maybe the quantity isn't that

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:03

great if you're traveling or you know, you work outside the home,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:05

but make those moments impactful. Make that five

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:08

minutes that 10 minutes, the five hours make it memorable for

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:11

them. So John, if people want to get in contact with you, what is

Wesleyne Greer: 00:31:15

the one best way?

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:16

Well, you know what, Google me and find a

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:19

channel or identity that is most comfortable for you. In fact,

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:23

I'm going to challenge you Google yourself, because your

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:25

customers, your prospects, and others will Google you. And if

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:29

you don't show up on the first page, in a way you'd like, fix

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:32

it, go create a Wikipedia page about yourself. And basically

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:36

just do it according to the rules, cite your content, put in

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:40

an avatar, and you can actually improve the way people see you.

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:44

But to make it really easy, my email is Jalen and nimble.com.

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:48

Reach out to me and let me know how I might be able to help you

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:51

in some of your passion plan and purpose in life. And if you do

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:55

go try nimble@nimble.com. And you do feel it might add value

Jon Ferrara: 00:31:59

to you use the code John 40 JLN for zero when you become a

Jon Ferrara: 00:32:03

subscriber, and it'll save you 40% off your first three months.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:32:07

Oh, that's awesome. John 40s. So go try

Wesleyne Greer: 00:32:10

nimble. As I said, I've tried it. It is an amazing CRM. And

Wesleyne Greer: 00:32:14

especially if you're somebody who's new to using CRM, and

Wesleyne Greer: 00:32:18

you're moving from paper spreadsheets, it's great. Or if

Wesleyne Greer: 00:32:21

you want to increase the usability with your sales team,

Wesleyne Greer: 00:32:24

thank you so much, John, like to leave

Jon Ferrara: 00:32:27

with your audiences. This CRMs are not

Jon Ferrara: 00:32:30

just for salespeople. And really everybody needs a personal CRM,

Jon Ferrara: 00:32:34

because everybody tells you that your network is your net worth

Jon Ferrara: 00:32:37

your personal brand. Plus your professional network will help

Jon Ferrara: 00:32:40

you achieve your dreams in life. And it's more than just

Jon Ferrara: 00:32:42

salespeople that need to do that any business professional today

Jon Ferrara: 00:32:45

needs to do that. And you should have your own golden Rolodex,

Jon Ferrara: 00:32:49

your own personal CRM, because today most people serum is

Jon Ferrara: 00:32:52

Google Contacts and LinkedIn. And that's not very good,

Jon Ferrara: 00:32:55

because you don't own your Google your contacts and

Jon Ferrara: 00:32:57

LinkedIn. And Google Contacts isn't a really great contact

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:00

manager. So if you are a business professional today who

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:03

wants to build their brand and grow their network, go sign up

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:06

for nimble and start using it in the places where you're

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:09

engaging, even if your company forces you to use some other CRM

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:13

at the office. And if you're a business owner, thinking about

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:15

your company, yes, a typical company of 100 might have five

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:19

salespeople, but the rest of the people in your company are

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:21

engaging with the constituents around your business. And if you

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:25

improve that engagement, then you're going to improve your

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:28

growth. And nimble is the CRM for more than just salespeople.

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:31

And so use nimble for all the people that are enacting at your

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:36

company with the community around your company and it will

Jon Ferrara: 00:33:39

help you grow your business.

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:40

Awesome. Thank you so much, John, I have

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:43

thoroughly enjoyed our conversation today. And I'm

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:46

excited for anybody who wants to try nimble out, send me a

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:50

message, send John a message and we'll definitely help you get up

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:53

and running. So that was another episode of the science of

Wesleyne Greer: 00:33:57

selling stem. And thank you so much for joining us today and

Wesleyne Greer: 00:34:01

remember in all that you do transform your sales until next

Wesleyne Greer: 00:34:05

time.

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Thank you for joining us today on the snack sized

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